AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

Your racism towards women wearing a niqab is pretty thinly veiled behind excuses of villainous thugs in balaclavas. If people want to cover their faces then they can, it's not up to you to police behaviour.

OK. Per you, Muslim women in the UK make a choice. To conform to societal norms. And yes, in the Westernised countries of the UK, some make the choice to shave their armpits and legs (fun fact: many Muslim women shave or wax their entire pubic region FYI).

I don't recalled being restricted to my house last week by my partner because I missed a week plucking my eyebrows, shaving my moustache and shaving my legs.

Are the societal norms of the UK, the British, Irish, Welsh and Scottish women to wear face coverings? Asides from covering your face from the winds up north.

If these Muslim women in the UK are making a choice, what would happen if that choice is removed by government legislation?

This thread is now attracting bad actors and trolls. Unfortunate as it's an important topic for women and girls.

Why only women and girls? We were talking about disguises and balaclavas and protests and covering identities with beards and wigs too

😂

This is simply incorrect. It depends on the grade of mask. Simple surgical masks or fabric masks protect other people from the wearer. FFP2/3 grade masks protect the wearer from others.

I am immunocompromised and wear an FFP3 in shops, on public transport, in hospitals etc. I have been yelled at, spat on, and physically assaulted for doing so. (Yes, I have been yelled at, spat on, and physically assaulted - struck in the face! - for the act of sitting quietly on a bus in a mask. Do people on this thread realise the real world consequences of their attitudes?)

As it happens, my sister is deaf. Masks certainly impair communication, and this is especially difficult for those with hearing impairments. But I cannot reasonably be expected to sit in silence on a bus without a mask, putting myself at risk, in case a deaf person comes on and wants to communicate with me. (If that happens, I can briefly lower the mask.)

Does the OP want me to sit at home forever rather than getting on with my life and wearing a mask when needed?

Banning face coverings, and expecting those of us who are immunocompromised to disclose our medical history in order to access public spaces, is overt disability discrimination. It is unlawful, and anyone doing this should anticipate being on the receiving end of legal action. Disabled people are fed up of being hounded out of public life.

So that they can’t be identified and arrested by police hellbent on enforcing unjust laws.

There is no requirement in the Quran to wear a niquab or burqua - "women should cover their beauty". Niquab and burqua are cultural.

That said there can be no end of laws precluding this and that, but with the police officers to enforce the law, the will to enforce it, and a legislature willing to prosecute it there is no point in such legislation.

Perhaps they are disabled, immune compromised or pregnant and they are trying to avoid infectious diseases.
Or perhaps someone they love is disabled , immune compromised - or trying to avoid becoming so. Because viruses can disable people you know.

Accusations of racism are not called for. Wearing the niquab is not a racial attribute and is not a religious requirement. It is a personal choice. Most Muslim women do not wear it. Muslim women come from many different cultures and races. It is not racist to dislike face covering. Most of the world ( including Muslim countries) does not practice face covering.

Did you know this much about niqabs before you started the thread or have other posters provided information you are now using as some kind of 'strong argument'?

You seem to have unlearnt how to spell niqab , however.

I don't see how it can be both a 'personal choice' (your words) and a symbol of oppression. Your initial argument was that somehow you can't make conversation or bond with a woman whose face is covered, as if otherwise you would chat away. You moved the goalposts a fair amount.

No - I have said several times there should be medical exemptions.
Other countries manage to do this.
I don’t think it should be heavy handed. I just don’t want to see gangs of face covered feral youths marauding in the street .
Im not a fan of the niquab either - because I think it potential Isolates women . However very few wear a niquab where I live . The balaclavas are a much bigger problem

How will “medical exemptions” work?

As someone upthread asks, are we supposed to strip off to show our scars and bald heads before entering Tesco? Do we need to recite our lists of medications before getting on the bus? How will this be enforced? Are bus drivers qualified to do this? Will there be a panel of bus passengers deciding whether we can get on? How will privacy be assured, or do you propose that the public should have access to undressed disabled bodies, and/or our medical history, so everyone knows we have an “exemption”? Will you call the police to question masked cancer patients catching a bus to the hospital so they can prove their “exempt” status?

It’s ridiculous, and as I have already said it is clear discrimination. (Requiring a disabled person to disclose private information to access a service, and not requiring the same disclosure of a non disabled person, is the definition of discrimination.)

No I haven’t moved the goalposts. I’ve been consistent with my argument.
When I say it wearing a niqab is” personal choice” I mean that niqab wearing is not a religious requirement. That doesn’t mean that women can’t be forced into wearing it by coercive and abusive partners. Both things can be true.
Im not sure what you mean by accusing me of relying on information by other posters? Perhaps you have an example?
My initial example of how difficult it is to chat to a niqab wearer was simply meant as evidence of how the wearing of a niquab isolates the wearers and creates a barrier.

I accept that this is a challenging area and I don’t want disabled people to be discriminated against or be made to feel uncomfortable.

I don’t accept that it is ok for hordes of teenagers wearing balaclavas to storm shopping areas.

I think face covering in public should be in very exceptional cases.
I don’t have a perfect solution but the current situation needs to be addressed.

A man dressed as a Muslim woman was sent to prison for taking driving tests theory over and over so people who weren’t good enough to pass it themselves were recorded as having passed it.

Now they pretty much strip you naked when you take your driving theory. Yes I’m being silly but they do ask pupils to roll up their trousers and sleeves, turn pockets inside out, lift hair up and remove glasses to check for recording devices.

My 2 lady Muslim pupils weren’t checked at all even though there are plenty of female staff present to check them.

At the driving test centre several men dressed as Muslim women were found to be taking driving tests for people who weren’t at an acceptable standard to take them themselves. Now there are always female examiners present to check the identity of anyone who turns up with a face covering. No one seems to anymore.

People who wear face coverings to break the law aren't going to be put off by making face coverings unlawful...

Poor old Johnson. He would have liked to ban any kind of face covering, but his handlers made him tell us to wear them. He tried to resist wearing one himself, but his handlers brainwashed him by showing him a montage of world leaders, all wearing a face nappy covering, then photos of himself not wearing one.

Oh behave. One is for the cold winter, another is religious oppression and the final one is because you’re up to no good.

So what you’re saying here is we should accept women’s faces completely shrouded in public in case their husbands commit domestic violence and keep them as prisoners?

No. As western women we should do all in our power for outreach to Muslim women and make this behaviour completely unacceptable in the UK. We do not bow down to vile men and their demands here and we should not allow the slow creep under the malicious guise of religious freedom. I don’t care who your sky fairy is, women should not be suffering at the hands of men. Giving up is pathetic.

My face has been covered when out of the house for the last few months due to the weather. I have a fab snood that covers my chin and mouth and nose and a big woolly hat the comes down to my eyebrows. I speak to plenty of folks whilst out and about and no one seems threatened by me.

Then you have no idea how patriarchal and abusive religions can be to women. Look at the Middle Eastern countries and what they’re doing to women and girls right now.

This is about everyone from someone wearing a bike helmet to another wearing a balaclava having to show their faces in public settings. Unfortunately the high trust society has started to be decimated and we need to be able to identify and persecute troublemakers.

It’s not remotely challenging, and medical conditions where someone ends up immunocompromised are NOT exceptional. There are many hundreds of thousands of immunocompromised people. We have families who also take precautions.

It is a huge leap from “I don’t want hordes of teenagers wearing balaclavas to storm shopping centres” to “all face coverings should be banned in public”!

I don’t want hordes of teenagers to storm shopping centres either.

Banning disabled people from doing their shopping in a medical mask won’t stop hordes of teenagers storming shopping centres.

Banning women who wear face coverings for religious reasons from accessing public spaces won’t stop hordes of teenagers storming shopping centres.

Banning wearing scarfs and balaclavas won’t stop hordes of teenagers storming shopping centres.

I don’t know what will stop this violent and antisocial behaviour, but surely a reasonable first step would be to increase the police presence, and require the police to take action? Taking direct steps to tackle the antisocial behaviour, rather than banning disabled and religious people (women) from public life…

The main issue is youths in balaclavas and bike helmets? Then that is what should be required to be removed when going into a public place.
I have no issue with women wearing face coverings as long as they want to.
Similarly I have no issue with people wearing scarves when its hot, or medical grade masks on public transport.

Being a Muslim isn’t a race.

There are even vile white men like Andrew Tate who have converted. There are many white Muslims like in Algeria.

I don’t really care for the racist word when it comes to women’s rights sorry. You won’t scare many of us off with that nonsense anymore.