Child given money by "Vicar" at school

[TakeALookAtTheseSwatches]

So my 10 year old daughter (year 5) came home from school on Thursday and told us the Vicar (possibly just a trainee, I'm not entirely sure) who was taking their collective worship at school gave her £5 to "get herself an Easter treat" and that it was "just between me and you" I asked her if she told the teacher and she said no. I feel quite uneasy about this, should I say something to the school?

I find that hard to believe when there are now such strict safeguarding protocols in place.

Some are so strict, that it interferes with some activities that the children like eg:

One church I know about had a vicar who had a childrens' band in the church tower room on a Saturday morning (his eardrums had my sympathy !)
He played the guitar and was helping some children learn and he had parents' permission for that, This involved sitting behind the child on another chair and guiding their fingers into position on the fret.
After the new Safeguarding Rules came in to operation he cancelled the group because he was concerned that it might leave him open to unfounded allegations.
It was the kids that lost out.

Some of my friends were bellringers and taught children to ring bells.
To do this they needed a DBS certificate from the police. Unfortunately the Diocese required a certificate that covered them for each church tower they rang at. At a cost of £21.50 for a basic certificate and £49.50 for advanced one this was financially penalising.
They approached the Diocese to see if they could have a "mobile" one that would cover them for every tower in the area but this was refused as each church had it's own insurance.

So all they could do was just teach at their own tower. Again the kids lost out.

Not only that, but a Safeguarding rule came into place that said if people were transporting children to a church activity they needed to have an adult male and female, both with DBS checks, in the vehicle.
My friends used to go around the area collecting children and taking them to bellringing practice. Usually they carried 4 in a car. After this ruling came into play 1 child lost out in each car as they could only take 3, to make room for the extra adult.

All this is bureaucracy gone bonkers IMO

Of course! This is a huge, red flag and a safeguarding concern.

Agree with OP that it should be raised but can wait until school reopens. For those assuming schools were closed, the schools on my area only finished term on Thursday as well - and I am in the South west.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain as a PS - if your friend has any evidence of any wrongdoing such as you have described, they have a duty to report it to the Safeguarding Officer at the church concerned.

The 2019 Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) made over 22 recommendations, one being to introduce a new “mandatory reporting régime” for child abuse in England and Wales, which the government are now seeking to enact.

https://www.churchofengland.org/safeguarding/safeguarding-e-manual/reporting-safeguarding-concerns-and-allegations

Thank you, please note this, OP.

To be honest, I’m not sure she has done, as she’s Catholic and suffered historic employment issues. I would whistleblow though.

This happened about 20 years ago, involved choristers. I believe my friend.,

Well, she really ought to! I know it requires courage, but she won't lose her job.
See @Daffodildahlia 's post about safeguarding.
Your friend would be doing the right thing, and saving children at risk.

What happened and where?

I’ll speak to her. As I’ve said (didn’t mean to drip feed) this happened a long time ago when safeguarding was much more lax. In fact I know someone who worked in safeguarding in religion, had an issue there and was let go, got another job in safeguarding.

No need to go to Police at this stage (and possibly at all).

You are right to email the headteacher and school, they may be monitoring emails. Wait for them to gather the facts, annoyingly yes this might be after the holidays now.

I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned it but the other agency to consider is LADO who deal with Position of Trust issues and have some oversight. In my LA, they provide a good link between all agencies that have involvement in a concern and raise queries with the police directly over whether things reach criminal threshold or are purely conduct issues. Procedures may vary area to area.

On the face of it, and presuming the dd is being truthful, it sounds like it is a conduct issue that can be dealt with by school/church but further exploration around the circumstances and whether the individual has shown a pattern of behaviour or has history of previous warnings is definitely worthwhile.

The child abuse. I’m not saying where it happened as it’s very outing for my friend. Presumably where either on church premises or choir parts of church, actually cathedral.

She’s now left both jobs. One was for a cathedral Anglican, other was for a Catholic diocese. Doesn’t work now.

And was the perpetrator taken to task ?

Please urge her to go to the police. Even if it was some years ago. These people need to face justice. She won't lose her job.

I have no idea. Probably not. As I said I’ll speak to my friend. It’s not as cut and dried as you think as there was historic bullying going on there to my friend, probably because she knew of the sexual abuse and they didn’t want her to whistleblow.

I will do. As I said luckily she doesn’t work there anymore. The only thing she may be worried about is press attention. Her mother is a staunch Catholic.

Did she do something eg distribute hymnals maybe and it was a reward?

Just a thought as I can't imagine anyone being so stupid to do such a thing with a child in this day and age. But then, what do I know.

What?! That's even worse! Seriously. She needs to go to the police. There are dedicated officers.

Agreed,

These historic allegations are now being taken seriously and are investigated fully.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y5e32vwdwo

😮That's appalling.

It's also very sad.
There used to be so many people who were willing to do church youth work - as I mentioned in my post of 8.01 today who are now discouraged because of all the 'red tape'.
This increase in bureacracy has been caused by a few individual with nefarious motives.

Isn't it? It just gets worse!

It may be innocent, but I don't know why an adult would do this, especially now, when most people should be very away not to do anything that looks like they're crossing any sort of line with a child. An older man we didn't know stopped us in the street one day for a chat and gave my son £1. I didn't want to take it, but also wanted to get away safely, so just said thank you. Maybe he was missing his own grandchild, who knows, but it didn't feel right. I'd believe your daughter and say to the school that the vicar gave her £5 and you wondered why. (Don't provide potential excuses/reasons for it; wait to see how they explain it.)

Nobody said ignore it.

A few are being cautious wait speak to school, let them verify if indeed this vicar sat beside the child.

I know there's hiding in plain sight but is a vicar going to try handing a fiver to a child in a room with at least 30 other people. Where someone is bound to see?

Grooming would mean he'd have a plan to see the child again. What is the odds that he'd be able to sit beside the same child at any other assembly or church visit?

When my daughter was a baby it was a normal thing for older people to give them a coin (10p then maybe a £1 now) there was no suggestion of anything inappropriate.