AIBU to think Marrakesh was far worse than I expected?

[LondonLass37]

I'm 40. I went to Marrakesh for a week with a female friend of the same age. Both white, both blonde. Just looking for some warmth, culture, and a proper break.

What I experienced was genuinely awful.

We were harassed constantly , not just persistent sellers, but followed, hissed at, and touched. A man spat at my feet because I wouldn't give him money for directions I never asked for. Later, a drunk local chased us through the medina. We had to hide in a shop for nearly half an hour.

The medina is filthy. In the markets, animal carcasses hang next to food. Live donkeys are visibly mistreated and beaten. I'm still upset about what I saw.

The food was bland and lukewarm. My friend got food poisoning.

I wanted mint tea and beautiful tiles. Instead I felt unsafe and miserable.

So – AIBU? Or is Marrakesh genuinely as terrible as I found it?

Yes it does but it doesn’t happen in broad daylight with groups of men groping wowen from morning to night with zero fear that they are doing something wrong. It happened to me in one of those countries and I can say hand on heart I never, ever want to return. I was 17 with my family and the touching, grabbing and attempts to pull me away from my family from gangs terrified me. The older men even tried it on with my Mum. Horrific, it’s not comparable to waking in Italy sweetie.

I have travelled solo in Egypt as a young woman and in Turkey in my 40s. DD travelled with her friend in Turkey in her 20s.
No hassle at all except people trying to sell us stuff. But we are brown. I guess the men aren't interested in women who look so similar to them.

I keep seeing women posting about this over there and there is always another who comes along and says it's changed in the last few years, so it is interesting to see it still happens.

It’s a dump but nowhere near as horrendous as Egypt (Cairo/luxor etc)

I loved Cairo and Luxor. Incredible sights and history. Want to go back to see the new museum.
Just shows we are all different.

I don't know how anyone can say that Marrakech is a dump. Anyone's allowed to dislike it if it's not their thing, but it's an amazing and historic place. It's not dirty or run down or unkempt. It's just an old city with a maze of alleyways that disguise wonderful homes and guesthouses in the riads behind each door.

Portugal, Italy.

I remember crossing the main city square in my (full length) gym cothes as a young girl and the amount of staring, harassment and sexual comments was unreal. It was like the whole place stopped and everyone stared and made noises. Was usual to get loud comments like 'I want to ride the bicycle with you tonight' while riding a bike as a woman, dressed appropriately for riding a bike, e.g. leggings and t-shirt. Lots of stopping, staring and noises.

Italy, ditto, I'm older now and was propositioned in front of my family several times recently. People grab your suitcase to 'help' and say 'my apartment is just around the corner'. Train conductor locked me inside a cabin and touched me, literally had to run away on a moving train.

I don't dress in a revealing way but suppose I do look like a stereotypical blonde from those films that some men get their ideas from. Not that any of this was relevant.

Conservative religion-dominated places with little cosmopolitan exposure where women have limited freedoms tend to be a bit... different regarding how people that follow different cultural values, e.g. travel alone, are interpreted.

I feel like across Western Europe generally times have moved on quickly, but groups of people with weird ideas about women and behaviours haven't died off.

Why are two blonde women ‘bound’ to attract attention?
it’s not as though western women or white or blonde or redheaded women and girls haven’t been travelling as tourists to these countries forever.

The locals in the market places and pretty much any tourist spots are not starved of views of white women or blonde women.

i’m small and dark, mixed heritage and I had horrendous experiences with men in Greece, turkey and India, each time staying in and visiting mainly very popular tourist destinations.

not so much , if any, hassle in any other countries , including a few places in the Caribbean.
a friends young teenage daughter had an horrendous time in Egypt , despite my pre-warning they would find it difficult , they were not at all prepared for the absolute onslaught.

i felt sad for her that her first ‘experience’ or ‘encounters’ were with predatory creeps.
these men take advantage of our misunderstanding of the ‘cultural differences’.

we make such huge allowances for such disgusting behaviour, paying to go to hot countries and accept assaults, even when covered up.
This is accepted and almost romanticised, or women are blamed for being blonde, or not covering up even though it’s sweltering hot.

people go to theee places for a promise of the exotic and because they are cheap. We take advantage of their poverty and this is what we accept in return.

if their government and police acted as they know they should about these behaviours, they wouldn’t get away with it and we wouldn’t be paying ridiculous sums for our women and girls to be harassed and assaulted and unable to go anywhere without a man to keep us safe.

Gosh, I went there over Christmas with my sister and we absolutely loved it. It was full of tourists and there was no trouble whatsoever. Thought the Medina was incredible but of course there are poor areas. Food is incredible and the shopping so great. The locals were all lovely and very respectful and as they don’t drink I didn’t see any drunks! Sorry you had such a shit time but definitely not typical.

I found Cyprus like this as well. I would never return

I went with my adult daughter a few years ago. It was a trip planned with her BF, but they split up, so she took me instead. I was really anxious before I went because it wasn’t somewhere I’d choose to go. But tbh, we weren’t harassed at all. At the markets the main danger was pick pocketing. My dd is very attractive too, but there was no over attentiveness from men. It was an experience, I wouldn’t go again though, but glad in the end that I did go.

I’ve been and didn’t experience any of that, but it was over ten years ago so maybe things have changed.
I felt like that in Istanbul , horrible men , felt unsafe.

I loved it (though kept away from the meat areas as much as I could). No hassling, though I did wear fairly modest clothing - at least long dresses with cardigans to cover my arms etc.

Also no issues wandering round Cairo, Luxor or Aswan by myself at night (though Cairo by day was a bit hassley).

I struggle with the animal side of things and actively try not to look, but in terms of how in was treated as a woman it wasn't a problem.

Are you suggesting the OP is lying? Or the other women who have had similar experiences.
Since that Agadir trip I’ve been to Turkey 3 or 4 times, with my husband. About 20 years ago. The attitude to western women is despicable. I’ve been to Egypt too. But now in later adulthood we’ve gone to exclusive southern Egypt where they are forbidden from harassing women.

I agree I had this experience the first time, much better the second time with a boyfriend. I loved going to the atlas mountain trip

My main issue with Morocco is that it's filthy, plastic bottles lining the roads all the way between Marrakech and Essouira, and also in the Atlas mountains. A truly beautiful place spoiled by littering. Other than that, I enjoyed Marrakech and felt safe there. I wasn't hassled much in the Medina, but I was with DH and maybe I'm too old to be hassled these days and also I won't take any shit.

Egypt was fine when I travelled there many years ago, Tunisia not too bad (apart from one instance of groping, urgh) and I've never had any problems in Turkey.

India was another matter entirely; as a blonde woman in my 20s even with DH I got hassle, men kept trying to stroke me - ewww.

The worst place in Europe though, again in my 20s, was Malta; the creepy men were off the scale. It was horrible, and while I'd go back everywhere else (maybe not India) I won't go there again.

I won’t travel to any Muslim dominated country for all the reasons in this thread. They detest women and consider them to be below goats! Revolting men.

Oh please !! Portugal and Italy are nothing and I mean nothing like Marakesh or Egypt I’ve been to all several times . Portugal is a safe country as it’s Italy , if someone tried to touch you someone else’s would jump to defend you . Try that in Egypt! And by no means I’m saying I didn’t like all but the comparison is just plain ridiculous

Turns out not all cultures are equal.
Those hissing spitting men don’t change by landing in Europe.

“”One may argue that most tourists are not going to want to wear hijab. However you are in their country and it’s wise to dress in a similar manner to local women so as not to attract unwelcome attention. “”
Would anyone say the same to women wearing full niqab in Europe?
They don’t generally get groped hissed at and spat on, and if they did it would be condemned.

I would never go to a county where women are treated like animals.

I LOVED Marrakech. Actually it changed my life - I loved it so much that it inspired me to stick at a uni course I hated because I knew this course would allow me to travel and live abroad! To this day I am so grateful I took that trip to Marrakech. I thought it was beautiful and the people were lovely too.

I'm curious. What is ethnic food ? 🙄🙄🙄

What’s with the hissing? What do they mean by that? I’ve never felt the need to hiss at a stranger who’s just going about their business.

Some men hate women being independent