Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

551 replies

LucyWestenra · 01/04/2026 15:32

AIBU for thinking it won’t? Because it doesn’t seem to be the case in this country or my home country (Germany).

(I just googled because it didn’t seem right to have antisemitism in lower capitals, but apparently that is correct, as I thought)

Much love to the Jewish community, wherever they are.

❤️

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 22:06

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 01/04/2026 21:35

I admit to not being an expert, but I think Zionism is more than wanting the state of Israel to exist. Does it not mean wanting it to exist over a very specific territory, much of which is also claimed by Palestine, and was previously considered Palestine?

And involves settling more and more
land by any means? Or perhaps some versions of Zionism do?

I’m genuinely asking at this point because as I say I’m not an expert.

I entirely think the state of Israel should exist. It’s right that Jewish people should have a state where their religion is the primary one. But I also think the Israeli govt needs to be more compromising about exactly how much land the state of Israel needs to cover and how they will work this out alongside the Palestinians, who also deserve their own country. And also the means they will
use to achieve their aims.

I don’t buy into the idea that Palestine is simply part of Jordan, or that Jordan is the land those people should be living on (as I’ve heard some people arguing). They clearly are a distinct people.

I would have thought that the above might make me anti Zionist, or at least not Zionist. But I’m really happy to hear people’s views.

I’m not an expert either, but I am interested in history (and old enough to remember quite a lot of this from when it happened in the 70s and 80s).

What I do know is that there was never such a country as Palestine, and indeed the early zionists were referred to as “Palestinians” while the Arabs were the Arabs. It was only from the time of Yasser Arafat (born in Egypt, not in Palestine at all) that the Arabs quite controversially switched to the marketing ploy of reinventing Palestine as being the Arab population of what had until then been “Cisjordan”. I remember that being the name used in the news. What’s now Jordan was Trans Jordan.

And the original Arab plan, when they rejected the creation of Israel by UN mandate, had been to integrate all of it into Greater Syria, not to set up a separate country. And when Gaza was ruled by Egypt from1948 to 1967, nobody complained that Gaza wasn’t getting fair recognition as part of Palestine - what they complained about was that they didn’t want Israel to exist at all. But I don’t think anyone cared that Egypt was running Gaza. It was only the Jews they couldn’t stand.

To come back to your original point, Zionism is literally the concept of a homeland for the Jews in Israel. Nothing else.

As for the regular allegation about them wanting more land, has anyone ever looked at how much land Israel conquered and then handed back in exchange for peace? Israel came out of the 1967 war in possession of the whole of the Sinai peninsula. They gave it back and since then have been at peace with Egypt.

Same thing with Jordan: why did Israel invade south Lebanon recently and not western Jordan? Maybe the fact that Jordan years ago expelled the Palestinians who were trying to use Jordan as a base for attacking Israel (massacring thousands of them in what’s called Black September, but nobody hates Jordan for that, oddly)? IOW Israel was not being threatened by people on the other side of the Jordanian border, so it didn’t attack them. Same as Egypt.

LilacMeadows123 · 01/04/2026 22:07

Antisemitism is taken far more seriously in the UK than Islamophobia

SatinPajamas · 01/04/2026 22:12

LucyWestenra · 01/04/2026 21:54

Thank you!!

I was starting to wonder if I was losing my marbles after all the hate I got on this thread!

So you've decided to drop the terrorist angle then?

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:17

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 22:06

I’m not an expert either, but I am interested in history (and old enough to remember quite a lot of this from when it happened in the 70s and 80s).

What I do know is that there was never such a country as Palestine, and indeed the early zionists were referred to as “Palestinians” while the Arabs were the Arabs. It was only from the time of Yasser Arafat (born in Egypt, not in Palestine at all) that the Arabs quite controversially switched to the marketing ploy of reinventing Palestine as being the Arab population of what had until then been “Cisjordan”. I remember that being the name used in the news. What’s now Jordan was Trans Jordan.

And the original Arab plan, when they rejected the creation of Israel by UN mandate, had been to integrate all of it into Greater Syria, not to set up a separate country. And when Gaza was ruled by Egypt from1948 to 1967, nobody complained that Gaza wasn’t getting fair recognition as part of Palestine - what they complained about was that they didn’t want Israel to exist at all. But I don’t think anyone cared that Egypt was running Gaza. It was only the Jews they couldn’t stand.

To come back to your original point, Zionism is literally the concept of a homeland for the Jews in Israel. Nothing else.

As for the regular allegation about them wanting more land, has anyone ever looked at how much land Israel conquered and then handed back in exchange for peace? Israel came out of the 1967 war in possession of the whole of the Sinai peninsula. They gave it back and since then have been at peace with Egypt.

Same thing with Jordan: why did Israel invade south Lebanon recently and not western Jordan? Maybe the fact that Jordan years ago expelled the Palestinians who were trying to use Jordan as a base for attacking Israel (massacring thousands of them in what’s called Black September, but nobody hates Jordan for that, oddly)? IOW Israel was not being threatened by people on the other side of the Jordanian border, so it didn’t attack them. Same as Egypt.

All Zionist propaganda that sadly too many people fall for. It fits a racist narrative. It is very easy to find evidence of the existence of Palestine going back centuries for anyone who cares to look.

KTheGrey · 01/04/2026 22:20

This is from The Times about the rates of likelihood of different types of hate crime being pursued.

It is mightily depressing to think we have that level of hate crime against either the Jewish or the Muslim communities, but it does seem to indicate that one is more likely to be treated seriously than the other.

Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?
KTheGrey · 01/04/2026 22:21

LilacMeadows123 · 01/04/2026 22:07

Antisemitism is taken far more seriously in the UK than Islamophobia

Not what the ToL reports

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 22:22

CoffeeCup14 · 01/04/2026 21:04

I agree that there is a double-standard, which is problematic. But all the other countries you've mentioned have fixed borders. Israel doesn't. It's trying to expand. We have issues with Putin trying to annex Ukraine. We resisted Trump trying to take over Greenland.

It's incredibly complex because of the history, and because of the atrocities commited by both Hamas and the Israeli government. And because it's some kind of proxy conflict for half the world (don't ask me which half - it's hyperbole. But there seem to be so many conflicts which relqte to this - so it's not just this, it's everything else)

I’m not sure this is true about those other countries all having agreed borders: India has multiple border disputes with its neighbours, and Pakistan has disputed borders with India and Afghanistan (Pakistan actually bombed a hospital in Kabul a week or so ago as part of its ongoing dispute with Afghanistan, killing medical staff and children - but oddly enough there was almost no media coverage of that in the west. Funny, that.)

KTheGrey · 01/04/2026 22:23

ColdAsAWitches · 01/04/2026 20:23

Give me a list of atrocities perpetrated by Jewish people.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2026/3/15/we-killed-dogs-israeli-troops-kill-two-children-parents-in-west-bank

Does shooting a blind seven year old with special needs count as an atrocity? Does beating a 12 year old that survived the shooting count?

That's just last week. It would be very easy to compile a list going back over a year, but I bet that won't count for you.

I think the poster might have meant Jewish people who are not Israelis - are you aware there is a difference?

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:24

We don’t call Pakistan a close ally.

KTheGrey · 01/04/2026 22:27

MissyB1 · 01/04/2026 17:26

Yep that’s what my South African dh says too. Dh grew up in apartheid, he says sanctions against SA did have an effect. He doesn’t understand why the world turns a blind eye to Israel’s apartheid, why are there no sanctions for them?

You know Israel has Arab and Muslim citizens and they also serve in the IDF, right? And they are represented in parliament?

Midnights68 · 01/04/2026 22:33

The political party currently leading the polls in this country are group of open Islamophobes. And they’re now trying to enlist the Jewish community.

I hope that most Jews will be able to see it for what it is.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/feb/11/nigel-farage-heckled-reform-jewish-alliance-launch

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 22:34

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:17

All Zionist propaganda that sadly too many people fall for. It fits a racist narrative. It is very easy to find evidence of the existence of Palestine going back centuries for anyone who cares to look.

I didn’t say Palestine didn’t exist - I said it was never a country, which is true.

Syria-Palestina is the name that was given by the Romans to the land previously called Judea (of the Jews) when the Jews were expelled after the Bar Kokhba revolt.

The renaming was done deliberately to erase the existence of the Jewish kingdom in that land. It was named for a people that had already long disappeared by then, the Philistines. They’re thought to be invaders from somewhere around the Aegean, who settled along the coast in a collection of city states called “Philistia” - but they were not “Palestinians”. That was a Roman invention.

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:43

If they had disappeared, why did 750 000 people need to be displaced in the creation of Israel? 🙄 Why did hundreds of villages need to be destroyed, just like they are now doing in Lebanon?

ColdAsAWitches · 01/04/2026 22:58

KTheGrey · 01/04/2026 22:23

I think the poster might have meant Jewish people who are not Israelis - are you aware there is a difference?

That's not what she said though. In one post she said there has never been Jewish terrorists and in another she asked for any example of Jewish people that had committed atrocities. You're being very disingenuous to now say that you can't include Israelis in that list. Why should they get a pass?

RonaldMcDonaldTrump · 01/04/2026 22:59

LucyWestenra · 01/04/2026 21:54

Thank you!!

I was starting to wonder if I was losing my marbles after all the hate I got on this thread!

I'm not Jewish or Muslim but if I was Jewish, I'd not be claiming you OP. Your posts are embarrassing. I'm cringing for you . You clearly have a big problem with Muslims, and if you feel that there are more resources available to tackle islamophobia then I'd suggest you sign up to them!!

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 23:02

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:24

We don’t call Pakistan a close ally.

How is that relevant to the existence of the country though?
Because that’s what was being argued - that being “anti Zionist”, ie against the existence of Israel, is not the same as being anti semitic, ie against Jews.
But as usual, the way the actions of Jews in the UK and Europe, and the actions of the IDF, are being conflated on here (such as the comment about a child being shot) seem to show that the link between the two is pretty close.

nutmeg7 · 01/04/2026 23:07

To be honest, I am sick of hearing special pleading from both sides.

I am sick of the utter wastefulness of the whole “eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth” grudge-holding, endless blood-feuding, vendettas, fighting endless battles from hundreds of years ago, the whole tribal mentality of the Middle East.

It is time to grow up and start accepting you are all human and need to learn to get along.

And stop expecting everyone to join in your endless feuding by agreeing with you that the other side are all baddies, but your chosen side can do no wrong.

I don’t give a shit whether anti-semitism or Islamophobia is “worse” - they are both the actions of nasty people, but I am NOT interested in being drawn into your bloody proxy squabbles.

I am sick of watching Israel repeatedly order civilians out of their homes in Palestine and now Lebanon in order to drop bombs. I am sick of watching Israeli settlers steal more and more land and treat local Palestinians like dirt. I am sick of Hezbollah and Hamas using their own people for their own political ends. And I am sick of Iran treating women like shit and subjecting their citizens to medieval laws.

I am sick of the men on both sides trashing their societies and ruining the lives of women and children because they are too puffed up by their own self- importance and bolstering their fragile egos and can never be seen to back down, or lose face.
What a fucking waste of human potential.

We don’t need to be fanning the flames of religious and tribal wars originating in other countries; we have got enough of our own problems.

FaceBothered · 01/04/2026 23:08

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:05

Disagreement with your point is not hate.

Exactly.

And it seems the OP is quite deliberately provocative on most threads when she discusses Islam.

I think she'd like to think it was hate, rather than just posters seeing through her.

Ihatetomatoes · 01/04/2026 23:11

Anti-Semitic hate crimes in London up 1,350%, Met police say.

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 23:15

BollyMolly · 01/04/2026 22:43

If they had disappeared, why did 750 000 people need to be displaced in the creation of Israel? 🙄 Why did hundreds of villages need to be destroyed, just like they are now doing in Lebanon?

The Philistines? They disappeared the same way many other Bronze Age peoples disappeared. Like the Mycenaeans and the Hittites in the same region, or the Bell Beaker people in Western Europe.

I mean, we might all still have some Bell Beaker DNA, but I don’t think that's a meaningful definition of who we are today though.

Similarly, the people who now call themselves Palestinians are not related in civilisation and language and probably not even significantly related genetically, to the Sea Peoples whom the Assyrians, Egyptians, Jews and Babylonians all called Philistines.

neveragainforreal · 01/04/2026 23:59

Ihatetomatoes · 01/04/2026 23:11

Anti-Semitic hate crimes in London up 1,350%, Met police say.

I don't think this will convince antisemites/racists.They will say that it Jews playing victims and then disregard it all.

Don't you know that all Jews are white, and can just hide their Jewish identity?

Not that hiding who you are is something that is suggested to others to this extent, and rightly so, to avoid discrimination. And let's just have an oversight that Jews comes in all shades.

None of this matters, as Jews don't count. This thread is such a great example of this.

BedlamEveryday · 02/04/2026 02:03

Emilesgran · 01/04/2026 22:06

I’m not an expert either, but I am interested in history (and old enough to remember quite a lot of this from when it happened in the 70s and 80s).

What I do know is that there was never such a country as Palestine, and indeed the early zionists were referred to as “Palestinians” while the Arabs were the Arabs. It was only from the time of Yasser Arafat (born in Egypt, not in Palestine at all) that the Arabs quite controversially switched to the marketing ploy of reinventing Palestine as being the Arab population of what had until then been “Cisjordan”. I remember that being the name used in the news. What’s now Jordan was Trans Jordan.

And the original Arab plan, when they rejected the creation of Israel by UN mandate, had been to integrate all of it into Greater Syria, not to set up a separate country. And when Gaza was ruled by Egypt from1948 to 1967, nobody complained that Gaza wasn’t getting fair recognition as part of Palestine - what they complained about was that they didn’t want Israel to exist at all. But I don’t think anyone cared that Egypt was running Gaza. It was only the Jews they couldn’t stand.

To come back to your original point, Zionism is literally the concept of a homeland for the Jews in Israel. Nothing else.

As for the regular allegation about them wanting more land, has anyone ever looked at how much land Israel conquered and then handed back in exchange for peace? Israel came out of the 1967 war in possession of the whole of the Sinai peninsula. They gave it back and since then have been at peace with Egypt.

Same thing with Jordan: why did Israel invade south Lebanon recently and not western Jordan? Maybe the fact that Jordan years ago expelled the Palestinians who were trying to use Jordan as a base for attacking Israel (massacring thousands of them in what’s called Black September, but nobody hates Jordan for that, oddly)? IOW Israel was not being threatened by people on the other side of the Jordanian border, so it didn’t attack them. Same as Egypt.

I stopped engaging with this thread as it was obvious OP has an agenda so there was no point, but your post has so many lies I have to respond. As PP said, all Zionist propaganda so it’s important to challenge it to avoid others falling for it.

There may not have been a modern state of Palestine before 1948, but there absolutely was a recognised region called Palestine under the Ottoman Empire and later the British Mandate for Palestine. National identities don’t require prior statehood, as is evident by many countries today not existing in their current form until the 20th century.

Palestinian identity also didn’t suddenly appear with Yasser Arafat. This is a lie repeatedly told to deny the mere existence of Palestinians. The term “Palestinian” as a distinct people, rather than just a reference to those living there, was already developing at least 100 years before, with Arabs in the region identifying as Palestinians well before the 1960s and the first modern use of it recorded in the late 19th century, years before Yasser Arafat was even born. Suggesting it is a marketing ploy ignores how national identities actually form and worse, deliberately ignores the very existence of Palestinians in order to justify the take over of the region by Israel. Identities form through shared language, culture, geography, and political experience and Palestinians are no exception to that. By your logic, many modern national identities should be dismissed the same way

Suggesting everyone only hated Jews is a major oversimplification. Yes some people will have antisemitism as their reason for opposing Zionism but for most, it’s about opposing colonialism and the cost and impact on Palestinians as a consequence of pursuing Zionism. Reducing it to one motive distorts the history and again, deliberately disregards the suffering and losses of the Palestinians.

Black September was widely condemned, and it’s not accurate to say nobody cared. It does show, however, that regional politics involving Palestinians have often been complex and, at times, brutal, but that doesn’t invalidate Palestinian national claims and that doesn’t justify what is happening today. It’s the continued persecution and mistreatment of Palestinians that is happening today that is the issue.

And while Israel returning Sinai after the Six-Day War is real, it’s not the full picture, as other territories remain occupied and disputed. Look at the how the Palestinian territories have reduced over the past 60 years. Look at what’s happening in the West Bank. And let’s not pretend Israel doesn’t have it sights on south Lebanon.

So by all means, support Israel and all that they do, but don’t spread a false narrative in doing so.

BedlamEveryday · 02/04/2026 02:05

neveragainforreal · 01/04/2026 23:59

I don't think this will convince antisemites/racists.They will say that it Jews playing victims and then disregard it all.

Don't you know that all Jews are white, and can just hide their Jewish identity?

Not that hiding who you are is something that is suggested to others to this extent, and rightly so, to avoid discrimination. And let's just have an oversight that Jews comes in all shades.

None of this matters, as Jews don't count. This thread is such a great example of this.

Far from it. This thread shows that many people are against antisemitism.

They are simply against it being pitted against Islamophobia and arguing which one is worse. They are both awful and both need to be challenged.

BedlamEveryday · 02/04/2026 02:07

@LucyWestenra Please do look up John Mann. Admittedly I didn’t know he existed until I just googled, but it does mean I have a question for you.

Why are you ok with there being an antisemitism tsar in place since 2019, but so against one being appointed on Islamophobia?

Swipe left for the next trending thread