Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

[LucyWestenra]

AIBU for thinking it won’t? Because it doesn’t seem to be the case in this country or my home country (Germany).

(I just googled because it didn’t seem right to have antisemitism in lower capitals, but apparently that is correct, as I thought)

Much love to the Jewish community, wherever they are.

❤️

Just because you enjoy googling (and quoting from some very obscure pages) it doesn't make you correct. You are sounding increasingly anti-Muslim with every post you make - and as a previous poster has said, the whataboutery is off the scale. It is clear that you believe antisemitism to be the worst thing in your personal hierarchy of bigotry - which is gross in itself - but you are mistaken. The majority of people know it is possible to have more than one thought in their heads at the same time. You can be an ally towards the Jewish community whilst also being an ally towards Muslims. You can also choose to be against zionist supremacy and against radical islamism. See how that works? You and others have attempted to hijack and dominate this conversation (across various threads) for a number of days and it isn't going to work. By all means, your opinions are valid to you - as are opposing views of others.

It's a lot more than just a muslim majority country - its constitution explicitly forbids laws which go against islam, and even applies certain parts of islamic law to non muslims.

But I think this is a pointless discussion anyway, because neither Pakistan nor Israel are relevant to this subject. It's about Britain.

Hold up! You've wanged on about Pakistan for hours and now that someone comes back with a counter argument, you want to move the conversation on? Yeah sure ok, that's not how debate works.

Oh I'm perfectly happy to discuss Pakistan - I've just proved that it's definitely one of the most islamic regimes in the world.

And now that that's been settled, I'm happy to move on because I expect that quite soon people are going to start complaining that talking about ANY countries other than the UK is off topic here - and they would be right.

But if you want to go on about Pakistan, have at it.

I have no desire to discuss Pakistan with you 😂You have deflected attention away from Israel by whatabouting about various other countries, then you got stuck on Pakistan, out of choice! You appear to have a deep-seated issue with Islam and I find that problematic, in the same way that I would find a post about Judaism problematic. I may be wrong about that - but it's how you are coming across.

What point are you actually trying to make that hasn't already been said? If it's agreement about antisemitism, I don't think you are going to get it. To be honest, it's Easter Sunday and I'd rather eat chocolate and watch crap on YouTube 💅

I wasn't intending to return to the thread, but as a final post just wanted to say I'm glad you've revealed your real motivation of being an 'ally'. I hope our Jewish posters take note and are not fooled.
Peace and light to all in these troublesome days 💐

Fully agree. It's pretty tiresome isn't it? But hey, the bigots always out themselves in the end I guess. This thread has reminded me why I stayed off Mumsnet for many years.

Solidarity to all marginalised people and their allies who genuinely abhor prejudice of all kinds (and don't use the pretext of compassion/solidarity for one group of people to prop up their dislike of another group)

💓

Ahh you see this is where you show how little you understand Israel and being Muslim doesn't mean you know history even of your own coreligionists.

For the sake of clarity, Pakistan was founded precisely to be a homeland for Muslims because the Muslim League didn't want to be a minority in a unified India. Partly because they didnt want to be treated the way Jews had been.

But you're right that Israel is a bit different since the right of return is first and foremost based upon being part of the Jewish people rather than religion.
Israel is indeed the only Jewish state, unlike the many many Muslim States such as the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. However, that is first and foremost as a homeland for the jewish people just as Turkey is the homeland for the Turkish people and Armenia the homeland for the Armenian people. Judaism is the main religion of the Jewish people.

The few converts (unlike Islam, Judaism does not proselytise, conversion is not encouraged and intentionally made difficult) are considered to have also tied their fate to the jewish people while many secular or atheist Jews still very strongly identify as ethnically jewish.

And the rise in antisemitism just shows to Jews how fortunate it is that there is an Israel which will always provide them wirh shelter and Jews are not simply at the mercy of the whims of the diaspora society in which they live. Jewish people know exactly how this story has played out in history over the last 2000 years.

Pakistan is entirely relevant since your argument seems to be 'well, israel is a jewish state and British Jews are Jewish and support the existence of Israel so what do you expect?'

But that argument seems to follow apart when applied to the war crimes and genocide of the many Muslim counties, including the specifically named Islamic Republic of Pakistan from where many British Muslims originate, including many who are particularly vociferous about Israel. Then its 'But it's not really Islamic because it wont allow all 2 billion Muslims to live there '

What is untrue about anything I said above?

Or are you just angry because I said stuff that you think nobody should be allowed to say?

Indeed.

Are you referring to me? Although can't be, as I've not discussed Israel...

I applaud anyone continuing this thread but I think it is fairly pointless when the starting point is so different. It is impossible to discuss this topic without an understanding for Jewishness and Judaism. How both can apply to you, or one, or none. I often simplify things as I know that the majority doesn't know/completely understand the difference.

I will never accept.antisemitism.

(P.S. I'm technically not Jewish, and don't practise Judaism, but Hitler would kill me - for those.who thought they caught me out. Back to.my holiday as minds will not be changed)

I have as much, if not more, grounding in Jewish identity than you, I assume.

My maternal grandmother was Jewish, and we observed the High Holidays with her when I was growing up. I was raised, and still live, in one of London’s most Jewish communities. I am not speaking from ignorance.

So the idea that your perspective carries some unique authority because you claim you know about Judaism and Jewishness is simply wrong.

And for the record, under Hitler, I would have been persecuted too.

None of these points, however, are prerequisites for opposing antisemitism. Your argument suggests they are, and that logic is fundamentally flawed. Persisting with it only undermines your credibility.

I support the existence of Palestine and will continue to speak out against the treatment of Palestinians. That position is not antisemitic.

I also oppose Islamophobia. That, too, does not make me antisemitic.

It is people like you that minimise real antisemitism.

I'm not Jewish, but I think those in power will always take Islamophobia more seriously that anti-Semitism, simply because of the numbers. There are 10 times as many Muslims as Jews in the UK.

An example of this is the willingness to cover up the grooming gang scandal. This afflicts politicians, councillors, social workers, media etc. People are terrified of being called 'Islamophobic' and they are willing to throw a few thousand white girls under the bus rather than run the risk.

I'm glad the Wireless festival and it's headliner, 'Ye', have been cancelled. I was very surprised at this outbreak of common sense.

The idea that having bipolar disorder would prompt you to start producing merch with swastikas on it is ludicrous and an insult to people with genuine MH issues.

Also 'Ye' is someone who adds fuel to the animosity between black and jewish people in the USA and that is definitely not something to be encouraged.

An example of how this is completely untrue is that we have a man who made Islamophobic comments sitting on the front bench of our parliament and no one seems bothered in the slightest. Yet a man from another country who makes antisemitic remarks has been criticised all over the news for days, eventually leading to his cancellation.

As awful as Timothy's comments were, it's hardly in the same league as being a self-professed fucking Nazi.

You're right, it’s much worse, considering we should be able to expect a basic standard of civility from our politicians that we don’t need from foreign rap artists.

So you're saying that what he said is worse than Nazism?

I’m saying that IMO, racism from a foreign rap artist can be discredited and discarded more easily than racism from an elected politician who has a prominent place in our government.

I’m also saying that this example shows the OP is wrong in her assertion that Islamophobia is taken more seriously than antisemitism.

I don’t like the fact that Jewish people are impacted by antisemitism and hate crimes.

I don’t think Muslim people have it any better quite frankly.

I’m Indian and having to see over 20’000 brown children die and no western government actually care about that grieves me. I have a brown child and to see how little value is placed on their lives is appalling. It makes me realise that as a non Muslim brown person that we have little value placed on our lives regardless of religion.

I think the premise of the OP is a bad one.

The UK has already formally adopted the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, and already has an Independent Adviser on Antisemitism.

The government's recent actions are intended to mirror, for Muslims (or perceived Muslims) what is already in place for Jewish people in the UK.

I do, though, agree that the rise in anti-Semitism has been shocking, and is not viewed with appropriate seriousness by the wider population. Large segments of the left appear to have, at best, a blind spot - that permits them to exclude Jews from the moral frameworks they otherwise purport to adhere to.

Although not good, a politician making 'Islamophobic' remarks is rather less of an important issue than the clan-based abuse of thousands of girls by predominantly Pakistani-heritage men in Rotherham, Oldham, Keighley, Oxford, Telford, Newcastle, Manchester, Aylesbury, Halifax, Huddersfield, Rochdale, Bradford and many other towns across the UK. And the cover-up that followed.

Yes. But not less of an important issue than a singer at a concert, which is the point I was making.

I don’t think the failings of certain police forces is an indication of how seriously either Islamophobia or antisemitism is taken in this country.