Can I make my baby sleep better or is this "normal"?

[BigBruisedFruit]

So I know there are babies sleeping worse than this but compared to every baby I know irl he's worse.

He's just turning 7mo. He goes to sleep around 7:30pm, then wakes up twice for a feed (he's breastfed) - around 12:30 and 3:30. Then he's normally up for the day at 6am or earlier.

I am finding it hard to cope with honestly, even though I go to bed at about 9:30pm. If I ever try to settle him in the night without feeding he just loses it, but I don't really think he can be hungry - he eats loads of solids now, has milk every 3 hours in the day, and is 75th centile for weight.

I'd like to either make him drop a night feed or wake up later in the morning. Is it possible?? Or is this just how he is?

He has three naps a day, all about 30-40 mins. I try to get the last nap in before 4:30pm.

From about 1mo - 5mo he'd go to sleep at 7:30, wake once for a feed, then go back to sleep until about 8am!! I thought I'd lucked out, but now he seems to have totally forgotten how to do that.

YABU - some babies are just like this, there's nothing you can do, and his sleep will naturally improve as he grows.

YANBU - you can fix this (please tell me how...)

Sleep pressure is key for longer naps so to drop to 2 you'd need to push the first one later or have a bigger gap between them. Probably does short ones as he needs longer awake. This may give you longer overnight but slept needs range from 11-15 total at this age so he's just about lower average end. Most babies sleep 10-11hrs overnight and I was very sick of reading of the 12hr goal as the norm. As they're breastfed I probably wouldn't night wean until 1, but sleep will get better although not linearly necessarily. Mine slept through from 13m to 2.5 and is now up every night again!

This assumes the child needs 15hrs of sleep in 24, which is the highest of averages and would mean high sleep needs. The vast majority do not need this and can't achieve it. Babies sleep needs are individual within a wide range. The problem wirh many sleep consultants and online charts is that they aim for the sleep of a high needs baby. Mine never did a 12hr night or more than 2hrs of naps, he just didn't need it.

No, it doesn't – the max nap times and earliest bedtimes account for either a child with high sleep needs or a child who is suffering from chronic overtiredness from poor napping + night waking. It's all adjustable for an individual child.

Regardless, at 6 months old, 12-16hrs is the average (not recommended) sleep in 24hrs. The recommended is 14hrs.

Of course its hard when you're in it, but this is actually brilliant. And you can put him down awake too, you have a unicorn baby (or I had a pain in the arse!) Can you and your OH have one lie in each at the weekend? Can you nap when baby does if you're exhausted?

This is incorrect in term of simply 'pushing later'. Sleep pressure is counteracted by the stress response of being overtired. Early bedtime is the best remedy for an overtires baby, as melatonin is highest between at 6-9pm, and produces the most restorative sleep period.

Two wakes sounds brilliant for a BF baby that age, sorry OP. Sounds like your first was a unicorn baby.

Getting up early is a killer IME though, and I'm a cranky mess if I have to do it 7/7 days. Do you take turns with your partner? Mine was kicked out of the bed at 5am as his turn to get interrupted sleep when I was BF. He still got the better trade off with a full night's sleep until then I think. Once night wakes slowed to a stop, we started taking turns.

We moved to 2 naps at 6 months, have you considered dropping a nap?

As for the night wakes, I think this does sound normal for a 7 month old breast fed baby. You might find the more solids he has as he gets older will help.

I’d drop a nap, personally

I wouldn’t do a 4:30pm nap for 40 mins and then bed at 7pm either

I would try and do the naps at 10 and then 2/2:30pm

I'm in the sleep training camp. If you're open to it we used "The happy sleeper" and both of ours sleep through. We started at about 8 months and it worked instantly with one and took much more persistence / stopping and starting with the other. Everyone I know who didn't sleep train has kids of >3yrs old still waking at least once at night. Sleep training is unfashionable at the moment because of attachment parenting and the idea that a woman should sacrifice her body, mind and soul to be the perfect mother, but there is no strong evidence that it's harmful for babies and personally I think my kids benefit from me being healthy and happy.
HOWEVER never found a solution for early risers, except waiting for them to grow out of it.

This is normal. Comparatively, a feed is such a quick way to get them back to sleep. Once they drop the feeds or you wean, it can be a much longer process of rocking and shushing and lying in uncomfortable positions if you co-sleep. I’d keep doing what you’re doing because it’s working now.

As for sleep, if you need a longer stretch, I’d go to sleep when baby does at 7:30. Have your partner sleep elsewhere so you aren’t disturbed. It won’t last forever, but sleep is the most important thing right now, so I’d get it at costs.

Normal for his age. Some babies just sleep less than others, and some wake early naturally. 2 wakings in an almost 12 hour period doesn't seem a lot. I'd try cut out a nap though if you are worried.

DS woke regularly at 4:30 for 6 months when he was about 18 months, which was great fun as you can imagine. He is still regularly up before 6:30, and he is nearly 9. He NEVER slept the recommended amount.

But he only wakes twice and goes down really early. I think both my kids were 2 ISH before they slept this reliably

Night feeds are normal and 10-11 hours night time sleep are normal.
If you put a baby to bed early they're going to wake up early!

Two things I would do are: teach him to settle at bedtime without feeding to sleep
and
move the first night feed earlier and do it before you go to bed - or make it a bottle feed dad can do.
Then you're only being disturbed for one feed in the night.

From about 9 months I would start dropping night feeds though.

Sorry OP I would have killed for that schedule with my breastfed baby! He's 13mo now and only just started sleeping in his crib most of the night, it helped once DH started doing his night wakes instead of me. Still wakes up around 4.30 and won't settle unless he's breastfed.

Try and think of it like it's just a season. Also is he really eating loads? Mine was on 3 meals at 7mo and still breastfed so often through day and night. Normal for babies to feed through the night until 12 months so we waited until then to try and change anything

Agree with this. I found the book Precious Little Sleep really helpful, it has loads of information and techniques to try for various sleep issues (it’s definitely not just “cry it out”!).

We started with teaching our son to fall asleep independently, did this by letting him fuss it out if needed, soothed him when he cried but always put him back down awake. This alone helped massively but he was still waking a few times in the night so I started spacing out feeds (he was feeding for comfort) and using other settling methods in the night to break the feed to sleep association. He then moved into his own room at 6 months and started having solids and we did modified Ferber which all helped him sleep through the night, he now does 7pm-6am pretty consistently. Sometimes he’ll fuss in the night but usually settles within a couple of minutes. If he cries, I pick him up, shh him and put him back down. He has never been left to cry it out. I would definitely recommend looking into sleep training and doing some research.

Agree with the above posts.

I’d also switch to two naps. Drop the 4pm one and do one at 10am and the next one at 2.

Or I may have done 9-10 and then 1-2.3/3. But mine did sleep a lot in the day.

I’d make sure the last feed was decent. A 7 month on solids shouldn’t really need 2 milk feeds a night so it’s clearly more a habit that you need to try and discourage. I’d also work on day time sleep.

Sounds pretty normal, you had it exceptionally good between 1-5 months. Doesn't mean it's not hard so I feel for you.

Same. One was waking 5-8 times at that age. My "good" sleeper was waking once or twice.

Do you try leaving him for a few minutes to resettle if he wakes after half an hour?

Mine consistently wakes up after 30-45 mins but then if you leave him for 2 minutes will immediately go back to sleep...

Not read the whole thread, but have you tried a dream feed when you go to bed?

Its not a sleep solution, but could you eat earlier (ie before kids bedtime) so that you get more proper time to yourself in the evening that isn't taken up by sorting out dinner?

Other than that, I agree with pp that transitioning to 2 longer naps will probably help

A dream feed used to work for us. You can express and get your DH to do it at about 11.30. Then you go to bed early and sleep right through until the next feed - which after a bottle at 11.30 should be nearer to the morning.

Yeah I think the nap schedule isn't helping - I would aim to be done with naps before 3. Getting up at 5/6 am is just how some kids are - my son has always been like this and is still like this now at 9. At some point, they can just entertain themselves for a couple of hours at least so it's not a permanent problem (though I know it will feel like it just now)

Babies can’t be “fixed”. Everyone else is either lying, or their turn for sleepless nights is ahead of them. I don’t honestly believe anyone lies on purpose, but the definition of “sleeping through” is very wide

You can fix it with sleep training. We did that with DS at 7 months and he slept through in three months. I was going to lose my mind if we hadn’t and I had PND.

We did gentle controlled crying where you keep going back in at intervals, say a sleep cue but don’t pick them up. It works but I’d recommend only doing it after consulting a sleep trainer. The one we used was excellent- DM me if you want her name.