Can I make my baby sleep better or is this "normal"?

[BigBruisedFruit]

So I know there are babies sleeping worse than this but compared to every baby I know irl he's worse.

He's just turning 7mo. He goes to sleep around 7:30pm, then wakes up twice for a feed (he's breastfed) - around 12:30 and 3:30. Then he's normally up for the day at 6am or earlier.

I am finding it hard to cope with honestly, even though I go to bed at about 9:30pm. If I ever try to settle him in the night without feeding he just loses it, but I don't really think he can be hungry - he eats loads of solids now, has milk every 3 hours in the day, and is 75th centile for weight.

I'd like to either make him drop a night feed or wake up later in the morning. Is it possible?? Or is this just how he is?

He has three naps a day, all about 30-40 mins. I try to get the last nap in before 4:30pm.

From about 1mo - 5mo he'd go to sleep at 7:30, wake once for a feed, then go back to sleep until about 8am!! I thought I'd lucked out, but now he seems to have totally forgotten how to do that.

YABU - some babies are just like this, there's nothing you can do, and his sleep will naturally improve as he grows.

YANBU - you can fix this (please tell me how...)

I don’t think there’s much you can do, babies are different. My nearly two year old has slept right through without a feed from about 12weeks. It wasn’t anything we did as if she’d woke up upset we’d of course have fed her but she didn’t. On the flip side she’s did nap through the day but not for long times so it was all go through the day.

If he’s waking at 6am, then his first nap needs to be at 8am, no later. Then his second nap 2hrs after he wakes from the first one. Only wake him from either nap if they are going past 2hrs.

Don’t move his bedtime later, it needs bringing earlier if anything, since his daytime sleep is poor. Between 7-midnight is the most restorative sleep period for a baby. It should ideally occur 3hrs after waking from his last nap of the day – two long naps or a two naps and a cat nap (30 mins ish).

I don't think there's a lot you can do. Both of mine are early risers, even now the eldest has started reception and obviously doesn't nap she's up by 6.
My son is 3 and is going through a horrible phase of waking at 5.30 no matter what we do about bedtime. My daughter went through the same phase.
Sounds like you're doing all the right things.

Is there a partner involved? If so you could introduce a bottle for the first night time feed, either expressed or formula?

2nd DD was a shit sleeper (compared to first DD) and DH and I figured out that 4 hours in a row was the magic number for sleep, regardless of total hours in bed we always felt better if we got 4 solid hours.

I'd also agree that 3 naps seems too many now and maybe baby is transitioning to a 2 nap schedule? But ultimately instead of trying to fix baby - which may or may not work - try to figure out how to maximise your sleep around baby.

My eldest woke every hour and was up for the day at 5.30 from around 5 months (after only waking every 3-4hrs for the first few months) until he was 3 and stopped napping. Youngest woke twice every night like clockwork from birth till 2, since then has slept through till 7. We had the same routines etc for both of them, they're just different 🤷🏻‍♀️ Just count yourself lucky you're only being woken twice a night!

Every baby is completely different and how they sleep is normal to them

can you express and get dad to do one of the night feeds and give you a break. That’s what we did.

I was going to suggest the same.
When DS was about 5 or 6 months, DH gave him a bottle in a night time feed and after about a week he stopped waking.

Good luck @BigBruisedFruit sleep deprivation is awful

Sounds normal and he’s a pretty good sleeper if he’s ily waking up twice in the night. I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old and most nights at least one of them wakes up in the night, and my 2 year old is up for the day at 5am.

DH can't really help in the night. He's an insomniac so he doesn't get enough sleep if he helps with the baby.

https://laleche.org.uk/breastfeeding-at-night/

what also helps me, if my husband isn’t working the weekend he gets up with all three children on a sat or Sunday morning and I get a “lie in” until 9/10am or so. This helps me catch up a bit on sleep.
usually my baby’s first block of sleep of the night is the longest block so I make sure I’m in bed myself for that !

I've heard that if the first nap is too soon it reinforces the early morning wake?

Never heard that in all my time with sleep consultants and learning infant sleep science. The 2-3-4 structure is a sound napping model for babies 6 months +. Wake - 2hrs - nap 1 - wake - 3hrs - nap 2 - wake - 4hrs - bedtime. On the younger end, they may need the cat nap to get them to bedtime, especially if they continue to catnap. If they are only catnapping throughout the day, then an early as possible bedtime is your friend. 6pm if needed.

The average is 11-14 hours so yours is completely normal. Two wakes is also completely normal. if you want a later morning wake, do a later bedtime. I wouldn't worry about the naps, mine always did 30-40 min naps. They'd sleep worse at night if they had more day sleep. Mine is 18 months now and finally started sleeping through usually 7.30-5.30.

I don't think this is particularly unusual - I had 2 great sleepers (+ one absolutely terrible sleeper!) but around weaning time they definitely woke more.

When he wakes at night is he really hungry or is it more about comfort and routine? (Neither is wrong but this might help you decide what might help)

If he's waking really hungry, how's weaning going? How much is he eating during the day and what kind of food? Possibly getting some more calories into him over the course of the day might help? Bits if fruit and veg won't make much difference but stuff like porridge, full fat greek yoghurt and cheese, protein will be more calorie dense.

Also maybe have a think about the timing of his naps. My eldest only ever catnapped until he was eating a decent amount of food then we found he slept much longer if he went down for a nap quite soon after breakfast and lunch, so he had a nice full tummy.

They're all very different though and remember he's still quite little and this too shall pass!

Also you need to eat with your kids so you don't have to do it after they're down. It'll make your evening much better, even if it's quite short. We eat at 5.45/6pm with our 18 month old, ideally I wouldn't eat so early but I'd much rather have down time after she's gone to bed.

In terms of your evening, is it possible to prep dinner (or at least partly prep it) or have some really quick things/one of you cook while the other does bedtime, so you can eat pretty much as soon as he's in bed?

You might feel like you've got more of an evening then, which really helps I think.

Agree 4pm is late for a nap, no way I’d let mine go down that late!

I also can’t believe how lucky you were having a one month old wake once and sleep in so late- I think this has skewed your perspective. From memory my first was waking every couple of hours all through the night to feed at this age. It was horrendous though and in the end we did controlled crying (I can’t remember what age this was from, sorry)

It can do but I think you're stretching him too far. Both my kids did better with 2.5 morning wake window to get a decent first nap out of them.

Doing the 2/3/4 I found 4 hours was also too long before bed leading to awful over tiredness and caused lots of false starts and a few hours of single sleep cycle wakes. And the 2 hours first meant they were too under tired to do a chunkier nap.

But they also needed to be taught to self settle and sleep independently - we did something called Gradual Retreat. The first nap of the day I'd the best tor practice sleep settling methods as they aren't over tired and then if still crap nap just stick with a 3 nap day to save bed time.

How do you settle to sleep for naps and bedtime?

I wouldn't bother trying to move his morning wake forward yet until he's established on 2 naps and dropped the night feeds as he will just wake earlier again hungry. In terms of dropping a night feed I would push back the first feed by settling in any other way and then gradually push back the time you will feed until the 2 feeds become 1.

Also most 8/8:30am wakers seem to be babies that wake up at 5:30, get fed then the mums co sleep to stretch them. You could argue they wake at 5:30 and that's their first nap if it makes you feel better!

Your baby is absolutely and perfectly normal. I think kyou need to count your blessing. Two wake ups in a night at 7 months is amazing.

I know how difficult an of sleep can be but honestly I think your little one is more typical of a 7mth old than you think. My eldest was walking up every two hours until he was about a year. I think some people just get very lucky with babies that sleep right through from about 12 weeks.

You could try waking him or doing a dream feed when you go to bed, which might help avoid the 12:30 feed. If you are happy to give a bottle, you could also get your husband do this feed if you prefer to go to bed earlier?

I think there is a huge amount of pseudoscience about baby sleep which gives the illusion of control. Controlled crying is meant to be effective, it was not something I wanted to do personally, because I just felt mean doing it when they couldn't understand (but perhaps I was unreasonable to think this - after all, they did not understand the necessity of baths, car seats, nappy changes but I did all of those things anyway) but there's no good evidence supporting the claims it's harmful, at least not long term.

This sounds better than my kids at that age. Are you getting lie ins in the morning as much as possible? That's how I coped. An adult sleep cycle is 1.5 hours so that's a minimum ideally for a lie in.

Mines was the same until I used huckleberry app and sorted out his day time sleep without feed association. Literally a week inputting his sleep and following his suggested nap times and he’s sleeping 7-5/6. I used the app already for timing feeds and it’s honestly saved me 😂 I then tried to adjust his bedtime feed so he wasn’t feeding to sleep and it worked!

I would try some of this:

• put him to bed later - if he's waking at 6, and you want him to wake later, then put him to sleep later - adjust naps then
• cut down on naps - but I would google baby sleeping schedule from American Academy of Pediatrics before you do this

I mean I just have to get up when the baby gets up so I never have a lie in! But I'm going to try to get him to do two naps a day as many posters have suggested and see if that helps.