AIBU to ask you to help me make a list of unseen labour that you do?

[Oreoqueen87]

Background is there has been ongoing tension between DH and I about division of labour. We have agreed to a make a list of all household tasks so we can see who does what. I am the default parent to a newly 7 year old. I do all the childcare organising, all the emotional labour, anything that requires thought basically! . I also do all the cooking and food organisation. I also do more childcare.

Can I please ask for your help in thinking of all the unseen things I do? I do everything apart from vacuuming, most of the washing and home maintenance eg mowing lawn.

He expects a lot of emotional support for himself. He wants to talk through every little decision and it’s exhausting.

DH can sometimes be reasonable when presented with facts, so I want him to acknowledge all the work I do. I doubt it will change much, but it gives me a basis for better boundaries in the meantime.

Longterm I need to LTB. Our child is undergoing evaluation for suspected autism/adhd, and I need to make sure it’s completed and a we have agreed how to manage it before any split.

If nothing else I want to have the list to look at so I can remember not to cave.

I remember my Dh explaining to me that ‘housework’ should take him about an hour a day maximum when he stopped work. I have rarely felt so homicidally angry. He did apologise a couple of months later. But ds was 8 by that stage. I don’t know what the fuck he thought I was doing for 8 years (and I was of course doing a job as well nearly all that time).

Thank you all so much - I have strangely loved hearing about all your mundane daily tasks.

I am absolutely hearing that I need to just foist some of this stuff off to DH so he can see how much time, energy and headspace it takes. I get the ‘just’ all the time. I’m going to point out to him if it’s quick and easy he won’t mind doing it.

The level of detail in here is brilliant - right down to cobwebs in the window panes. Come to think of it, I’m the only one in the house who isn’t afraid of spiders so I’m adding Chief Spider Relocator up the list!

keeping on top of children’s clothes, which fit, getting rid of small ones and working out what need to buy. This is ongoing! Same with kids toiletries.

parties - receiving invites, rsvp, present buying and wrapping, attending or drop offs, thank you texts, dealing with the sugar induced tantrum
academics- read school emails, pack bag with correct stuff on each day, monitor progress, notice and support with areas they are falling behind in.

ny ex once said he would take over the job of changing the bed every Sunday. He didn’t ever do it without a reminder on Monday which he took as a test and a criticism and it caused and argument and he’d only do it when he was finally ready, with the sheets I’d cleaned.
guess who is now bringing up the child mostly alone with him criticizing me by email constantly 🤦🏼‍♀️

The car! Service mot insurance wtc

Bins, a list all of their own!!
What day, bank hols mess that up
Which bins that week
Sorting recycling
Putting them out on time
Bringing them in before they get blown down the street
Cleaning the bins, I jetwash mine in the summer

Mowing, having the weather to do the lawns so the clippings can be put out with the bins on the right day. I compost mine or out them on my borders as a mulch but still have several bags each green collection

Boiler servicing
Meter readings (gas, electric, water)

Chimney sweeper (once a year)

Mould removal,
Emptying dehumidifiers
Remember to switch them on

Seasonal decorations (I do easter, autumn and christmas)

Layers of cleaning, tidying, pick up put away, high level, low level, dust, hoover. Deep clean move furniture, skirting boards.

Bins, a list all of their own!!
What day, bank hols mess that up
Which bins that week
Sorting recycling
Putting them out on time
Bringing them in before they get blown down the street
Cleaning the bins, I jetwash mine in the summer
Mowing, having the weather to do the lawns so the clippings can be put out with the bins on the right day. I compost mine or out them on my borders as a mulch but still have several bags each green collection
Boiler servicing
Meter readings (gas, electric, water)
Chimney sweeper (once a year)

I don’t do any of that. Thank you for making me appreciate what my bloke does. He does all the cooking and most of the grocery shopping too.

• Keeping track of household supplies & ordering new ones when we're running low.
• Meal planning & grocery shopping.
• Cleaning out the fridge / presses and putting food away after the shop.
• Liaising with the school & childcare providers. Paying invoices related to that. Thank you gifts for new term, Christmas.
• Remembering & marking special occasions. E.g. buying all the Easter eggs & Easter hunt supplies. Setting that up, organizing the Easter dinner and plans.
• Signing DC up for hobbies, selecting ones that fit their interests, our family calendar and budget.
• Dealing with our finances and banking. Setting the monthly budget, monitoring income vs outgoings. Setting up savings and investment accounts. Selecting our mortgage deals, switching, etc.,
• Setting up and maintaining our health insurance, property insurance, car insurance on our main driver (mine TBF), mortgage protection cover and life insurance. Renewing and shopping around for better deals.
• Setting up and maintaining our utilities Renewing, paying bills & keeping eye on deals. (electricity is the main one).
• Deep household cleaning, and special mention to the small tasks no one thinks of like cleaning out the coffee machine, descaling the kettle, cleaning the bins, unplugging the shower drain, emptying the dryer fluff drawer, cleaning under the couch cushions.
• Keeping track of DC clothing. Making sure they have enough suitable for occasions, size and season. Packing away / selling / donating old clothes.
• Emotional labour of being the default parent to the DC. I get a lot more shit off them as I'm the safe zone.
• Morning drop offs to childcare.
• Cooking most of the time
• Laundry (wash, dry, fold, put away)
• Evening tidy ups 50% of week
• Taking DC to activities 50% of time
• Organizing any dates / romance

On my DH's list

• Evening pick ups of the kids
• Garden maintenance (pick up after dog, mow large lawns)
• Car services
• Water system maintenance
• Dealing with anything broken
• Evening tidy ups 50% of week
• Cooks 1-2 times a week

I think the main thing isn't the size of the list though, it's the amount of free time you each get. My list is much longer, but with work equated for we each get the same amount of free time per week.

Ohhhh where to start

sorting birthday cards, presents, outings, parties
same at Xmas, see also xmas jumper day, school Xmas fayre donations
remembering and calendaring all school dates, arranging world book day outfits blah blah blah etc etc
arranging and paying for childcare (I wrote praying for childcare at first and that might also be relevant!)
dealing with medical appts
dealing with dentist appts
renewing house/car/life/whatever insurance, seeking out the best deals not just paying ridiculously increasing amounts every year
sorting the mortgage whenever the contracted fix ends, same for phone/broadband/energy
thinking about what to eat every bloody mealtime
thunking about how to make sure we eat healthy not just shovelling any old food in them or getting takeaway
planning, buying and cooking the above (even if they cook we've usually still planned and often bought it)
doing the actual shopping, unpacking it, rotating foods, keeping on top of dates, wiping out the fridge as you go etc
thinking about what everyone will or won't eat in order to meal plan and shop
knowing when the kids need new shoes, clothes, school bags, text books etc
knowing which size shoes, clothes etc to buy and what they will wear and what they need
thinking about all the house cleaning/maintenance you do and planning it into your schedule
all the house jobs you do he'd never even realise you do (wash sofa covers, duvets, clean windows, other spring cleaning type deep clean stuff)
decluttering and staying on top of what clothes etc still fit, what toys are still played with
trips to charity shop/tip

arranging and being in for tradesmen when necessary
dealing with any school issues
emotional support for kids
practical support for kids (obviously depends on age I'm in the needing a lift a lot stage)
pet appts, vets, trims
emails re anything child related, sports, school etc
staying on top of screen time, homework

im sure there's loads I've missed! Some these probably aren't mental load as such but things men don't seem to ever think about us having to do.

I have children with send so that adds a whole other layer of mental load as will having children with medical needs, being a carer for parents or others.

You can also try writing a list every day of what you've done.

Charging up things. So many things. And making sure we have the right chargers for devices because there’s no standardisation so Apple has its own and the USBs are modernised so half of them are on old ones and half aren’t. And some have proprietary ones…Joy! Electric blinds, lights for the bike, whizzy things with sensors - just everything!

Setting and managing Screen Time for the kids. Physically and emotionally exhausting.

And passwords. I have 352 in my iPhone alone and those aren’t even the valuable ones I’m reluctant to store in the Cloud.

I could go on.

I'm nodding along to everyone's lists.

Irritatingly I'm regularly told that I'm "lucky" because my husband does just over half the cooking, the laundry and hoovering (plus gardening though he admits that is more like a hobby which he enjoys). I do pretty much everything else. We both work FT and I bring in nearly double his income so I think it's fair, not lucky, that he takes on a chunk of the labour (so does he).

The niggling things are always the mental load things. In the past I've tried to split sharing those and it just doesn't work. For example we agreed he would be in charge of the kids dentistry but he kept forgetting to make appointments even when he got reminder cards, or would make an appointment assuming it was during a school holiday and then blame me for "not telling him the holiday dates" when he realised they'd still be at school.

Childcare for inset days - always me unless I leant on him to take a turn and then he'd moan about how busy he was at work etc (as if I wasn't). Friends parties, would drop off and pick up kids but I'd have to tell him when, where and remind him at least twice and get/wrap the present all ready.

Holidays - i do all the research, booking, planning (and pay the lion's share), he books airport parking, after reminders from me. The one time I went on strike and insisted he sort the holiday it was a total disaster.
Tried putting him in charge of eldest's school admin once the kids were at different schools - hopeless, school trip deadlines missed, lunch money not topped up. Son upset, husband wailed "you should have reminded me!"
Covid lockdowns - everyone's mental health was fractions. I worked SO hard to keep spirits up and come up with ideas of fun/different things we could do including making kids birthdays special when we couldn't go anywhere or see anyone. But no one gave a toss about my mental health so I had to keep my own spirits up too.
House renovation - I planned and project managed it, found and dealt with builders and trades, managed the financing/insurance/party wall agreements/keys for access, researched and chose all the fittings, paint etc (H just had to indicate a preference from my shortlist).

So it's easier to do most of this stuff myself. I try not to dwell on it too much because the resentment will affect me more than anyone else. The hardest thing is that it all seems totally taken for granted. So for example because I wasn't building walls myself, H seems to think I didn't do any more for the renovation than he did. And they will all moan at me if there is something about a holiday they don't like but never say thanks for arranging it in the first place.

Mental load is invisible, that's the problem for me.

Put them into groups; (for example)
Laundry;

• remembering if you have detergent/comfort at home
• purchasing the comfort and stain remover powder (which also involves knowing where it’s on offer/the best place to buy it from and knowing when you can go to get it)
• knowing if the tumble drier is empty/full
• collecting all the clothes from around the house
• actually putting the clothes into the washer - and remember what programmes are best to use for those items!
• having the space clear for an airer - clearing that space if not or putting it in the tumble drier.
• taking out the dried washing and folding it.
• knowing without looking at tags who’s clothes is who’s and where they need to go into wardrobes or chests of drawers
• actually putting it away in those places.

and thats just for laundry. If you detail every thing you do like this - birthday parties, cooking, tidying the bathroom (not cleaning - just tidying!), taking the children to the park, you will soon have an invisible labour list that’s extensive.

Kids clothes and shoes is a massive one. Clearing out clothes that dont fit, searching out and buying seasonal appropriate ones that do, measuring feet, making sure they have a rain coat, enough uniform, wellies, sandals for summer, sun hat, etc

The list would be pages and pages long

Edit to add: as PP have suggested, break it down by category

I do virtually all the mental load and life admin.
People who say share the load just don’t get it - once I asked him to be responsible for buying the gifts for his nieces and nephews, they went two years with no birthday or xmas gifts before I took back that task; other things I ask him to do he just doesn’t do, we end up with late fees and it takes me more effort to chase him repeatedly than just to do the thing in the first place.

School emails and communication
Buying child correct sized clothes each season and donating too small clothes
Noticing when things run out, or are about to run out e.g. toilet paper
Noticing when things need cleaning e.g. toilet, shower
Being everyones 'go to person', fixing problems
Thinking of dinners and shopping for ingredients
Keeping track of children's friends, their parents names, etc

I'm pretty sure if most of your husbands started listing all their work tasks they complete daily to earn the money to give you the freedom to write lists of normal human tasks and make them your 'jobs' then they would look pretty equal. You can't expect a man to earn all of the income, work all day and then divide household tasks equally. That's insane. Yes they should do some household chores but expecting a 50/50 split after they work 40-50 hours a week is very unfair and quite selfish imo

I have found my people.

can’t stand all the posters who maintain that the mental load isn’t a thing cos yknow Direct Debits and multipacks of birthday cards and so it all just takes ten minutes and you can just do it on your phone standing in the Tesco queue.

You need the 'fair play' card deck. You can get them on Amazon and presumably ebay too. It's used by some couples counsellors but easy to follow. All possible tasks in the card deck then blanks to add specific ones

Who says the men are "earning all the income"? Definitely not true in my house. We both work FT and I earn double what my husband does. And the mental load is still a huge problem for me.

What a nice life I would have if he earned and paid for everything and I just sat at home writing lists!

@Pancakesandcream33
We both work full time in full on roles and I very slightly out earn him.
You are being very unreasonable to assume that in this day and age that the majority of people have a 50's housewife/big boy job set up.

Emptying the dishwasher also includes wiping the seals, cleaning the filters, and topping up the salt and rinse aid. Even if DH and DS empty the dishwasher they don't do any of that.

Well if you both work full time then splitting the chores equally would be fair, same as splitting the bills equally and child care etc. But there are a large number of SAHM that also belive the men should be contributing equally to the household chores and that's taking the piss.

You've broken down your jobs into minutiae, even splitting grocery shopping and putting the groceries away into two bullet points.

And yet you've put some of his pretty big jobs into one bullet point. Garden maintenance for example, that can easily be broken down into lots of minutiae. Tool maintenance, supply shopping and putting away, weeding, mowing, sowing, fence painting etc

If you're breaking down your jobs to the smallest detail, then maybe you should do the same for his.