Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

[fatface001]

Alarm went off at 5:30 this morning, then an hour stood on a packed train into London for the commute. We are a normal family: one child and two full-time jobs. I’ve always enjoyed working and have always worked hard, and I don’t mind that at all — but I do expect that full-time work should still mean there’s something left at the end of the month for a normal life.

But that really doesn’t feel like the case anymore.

There’s nothing left at the end of the month. Everything has been stripped back, all non-essentials have gone, and even basic things around the house are being put off or done ourselves because there isn’t spare money for trades. It’s just constant cutting back.

What’s hard is that we’re both working really long hours and doing everything we’re “supposed” to do, but it still feels like we’re going backwards rather than getting ahead.

When I hear talk about “those with the broadest shoulders” contributing more, I honestly don’t recognise it anymore in real life. It doesn’t feel like anyone in our position has anything left to give — it feels like the pressure is entirely on ordinary working households just to stand still.

I’m not looking for luxuries — just the sense that working still gives you a bit of breathing room. Right now it doesn’t feel like that at all.

Is anyone else feeling the same?

Have you moved over into wealth tax from income tax now ?

Eh?

You stared off arguing that income tax increases couldn’t increase unemployment and once presented with facts, you seem to now be attempting to obfuscate the argument with a wealth tax on the ‘elites’.

I've never talked about increasing income tax

A specific example I gave was increasing tax on dividends

Completely all over the place.

Yes, that is an income tax 🙄

I mean it's not either income tax or wealth tax, there are many ways to tax wealth.

Dividends are a type of income but it's very different to the tax you pay on your wages. They are taxed much lower and I don't see why working people should be paying more tax on their wages than wealthy people pay on their dividends.

It’s always the same. Their ideology doesn’t hold up against the slightest scrutiny using basic facts.

Quite. I am also a parent of a disabled child who has complex needs. The exhaustion I experience is on an other level to when I worked and had children. I would attach a photo of the damage he did to my hand during a meltdown yesterday but it is too gruesome. There is increasing evidence that carers experience ‘carer trauma’.

‘Caregiver trauma refers to a state of mental, emotional, and physical exhaustion experienced by caregivers, often due to high-stress situations or dealing with severely ill patients. It can lead to adverse outcomes like depression, anxiety, PTSD, and burnout. Lack of support and preparation amplifies this trauma.’

It is galling to be looked down on as a burden to society when this is not the life I had planned, and only ever planned to be a contributor. I haven’t had a holiday for several years due to my son’s disability and am unlikely to have one for many years. I chose to have a child and with that comes the risk that the child may have a disability, just as it means lifestyle may have to change for a bit even if you have a ‘typical’ child. At least it is temporary, it is permanent and lifelong for many ‘winners’ like us.

I mean it is obviously is either an income or a wealth tax. Which are you discussing ? Would it be one you don’t pay by any chance?

I would like to see benefits taxed so that everyone, absolutely everyone, is making a contribution to HMRC. Taxation is for the many not the few. I find it laughable that everyone thought Labour would tax someone else, hopeful - verging on stupidity.

What on earth you do mean it's either an income tax or a wealth tax?

'Wealth tax' is a concept, it's not a fixed thing. It's about finding sources of wealth and taxing them. For example dividends that come out of business profits. So taxing this form of income is a form of wealth tax.

Basic rate tax is 20%. Basic rate taxpayers pay less than 10% tax on dividends. Do you think it's fair for working people to pay more tax on their wages than shareholders pay on their dividends? I don't!

Other than pip, benefits ARE taxed.

I get less than the threshold for tax. If you would tax me, then you would have to tax the people earning less than the threshold too.

What on earth you do mean it's either an income tax or a wealth tax

It’s very simple and the clue is in the name, one is a tax on wealth and one is a tax on income. Wealth is not a concept when it comes to taxation, you can’t tax a concept (although I’m sure Labour would give it a go).

Yes dividends are paid out of profits (which is not wealth), but you again are conflating two different things in a failing attempt to not admit you are wrong. Businesses pay corporation tax on profits, the recipients of the dividends pay the dividend tax. It is an income tax.

I’ve got a business and use dividends and yep I personally don’t think it’s fair either- which is one reason why this year I upped my salary to a far more realistic level and pay far more tax and NI than I could legally get away with and then pay a smaller amount in dividends . Call me nuts but I decided it made more sense - the other reason was I was finding it hard if needing to borrow to base income all on very big dividends - so a bit of self preservation there too - the other thing is if it’s a company salaries are a deduction against corporation tax - dividends are not - so I just ended up paying whopping amounts of corporation tax, which along with dividend tax actually almost balanced out at paying personal tax and NI

I think your forgetting business owner have taken ALL the risk of running and owning a business, if it was easy everyone would do it and yes they should be compensated.
I think its also forgotten that companies have to pay huge amounts of tax including corporation tax on all profits...and im not talking about multi million pound corporations.

Im talking small family limited companies like ours for example, that started from NOTHING, that pay vat, business rates, staff pensions and then after all of that your hit with corporation tax.

Now this isnt me saying its unfair, its not. But whats unfair is that people think business owners are just sitting lavishing it up.

Sorry that’s not exactly true - when people talk about benefits the vast amount is UC, housing allowance/benefit, PIP - totally not taxable-

from the DWP website

benefits such as Universal Credit, Personal Independence Payment (PIP), Housing Benefit, Child Benefit, or income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), these are completely tax-exempt.

a few are taxable but only if total income levels reach over and above personal allowance, JSA , carers allowance, and state pension( not exactly a benefit but classified as such)

Sorry meant to quote @glitterpaperchain

I don't think all business owners are 'lavishing it up'. I own a business. I think taxation on business needs to completely change too, so huge corporations pay more but small local business should be treated differently

I agree

I don't understand what you're finding difficult. Wealth comes from somewhere, including income.

You're avoiding my question- Do you think it's fair for working people to pay more tax on their wages than shareholders pay on their dividends?

How many millionaires are going to the trouble of applying for PIP/DLA

Loads of property millionaires will get AA

The thing is i don’t want to spend that amount of money on activities. I don’t have that amount of money spare for every school holiday. You’re talking maybe needing over £1000 extra per year to take you child out 1 or 2 times in the holidays. I also want my kids to enjoy things, I want to be able to take them to a theme park, or to the cinema - we have booked to go the cinema today. It’s cost me £32.

so over the 2 weeks they are off school we have been to event with my mum that was £82
we are going the cinema £32 plus sweets
we have a membership for the zoo £25 a month so we will go there - take a picnic
and we are meeting up with some friends even if you do something like go the park; they still need drinks snacks etc.

I just don’t think that wages should be so low that we can’t enjoy are time off without it being a strain

Why would a business choose to locate in Britain if we had a high corporation tax?

Honestly, the amount of people who simply think RR is missing a trick and is only she listened to them all of our problems would be sold! Do you not think she’s weighed out the pros and cons of increasing both dividend taxes and corporation taxes? Do you not think they’re doing all they can to balance the books (within the ludicrous limitations they’ve hamstrung themselves with by saying they won’t increase the three main taxes)?