Are other full-time working families finding there is nothing left?

[fatface001]

Alarm went off at 5:30 this morning, then an hour stood on a packed train into London for the commute. We are a normal family: one child and two full-time jobs. I’ve always enjoyed working and have always worked hard, and I don’t mind that at all — but I do expect that full-time work should still mean there’s something left at the end of the month for a normal life.

But that really doesn’t feel like the case anymore.

There’s nothing left at the end of the month. Everything has been stripped back, all non-essentials have gone, and even basic things around the house are being put off or done ourselves because there isn’t spare money for trades. It’s just constant cutting back.

What’s hard is that we’re both working really long hours and doing everything we’re “supposed” to do, but it still feels like we’re going backwards rather than getting ahead.

When I hear talk about “those with the broadest shoulders” contributing more, I honestly don’t recognise it anymore in real life. It doesn’t feel like anyone in our position has anything left to give — it feels like the pressure is entirely on ordinary working households just to stand still.

I’m not looking for luxuries — just the sense that working still gives you a bit of breathing room. Right now it doesn’t feel like that at all.

Is anyone else feeling the same?

I agree that all benefits should be taxed, at least that way people who are on benefits that equate to way above the tax threshold are clobbered like the rest of us.

There is a lot of misinformation in this chat
We don't spend 44% of taxes on benefits at all, the 44% is from the total amount spent on welfare, 55 % of that is pensions, see below for figures, a very small percentage is out of work benefits

see chatgpt.com/share/69ccfaa3-e34c-8332-8e04-250d336a123b

That I agree on - just to give people an example corp tax in Eire and Netherlands are lower and many other country’s similar - at the moment we have no advantages over these - quite the opposite - so if anything I think corp tax should be lower across the board ( which country can’t afford) Div tax though at point of payment tends to be more about smaller companies and individuals - and yes I think it should be higher to encourage more people in that position to pay personal tax and NI - That’s the biggie you don’t see if you don’t run a ltd company - you can opt to pay mainly in dividends and little NI - and if like me you have a full card of NI for pension it’s the most sensible tax efficient way - but is crap for economy

There are plenty who get more than the income threshold- where that applies it should be taxed like income. This is how Scandinavian countries already tax benefits.

You said "absolutely everyone" should be taxed.

I’m not finding it difficult to distinguish between an income tax and a wealth tax, it is very clear. Nobody said wealth didn’t come from income, you are again obfuscating to cover that you have no argument. Dividend tax is an income tax.

I don’t know if it’s ‘fair’ and working people are not excluded from dividends, I just know it will increase unemployment if it is increased and any encouragement for investment should be welcomed ..especially at the moment.

Yep, I think if we continue to see such huge rises in benefits claims they should probably create a new band to capture those receiving who do not contribute.

We have a decent joint income (just under 6 figures), but was just thinking last night that I feel a lot poorer than we did a few years ago. Increased costs (food, mortgage) and then paying for tuition for DD means that lately we’re having to really budget our money more carefully. We are not on the breadline, or anything: just having to manage a lot more carefully than in the past.

Council tax over £300 a month gives me the rage: so many people don’t pay it at all, or pay a lot less, yet we still get a really shitty service.

a friend is unemployed and not looking for work as the effort involved in working, childcare etc isn’t worth the extra money she’d get by working. But this means tht she’s taking circa £24k from the tax payer every year instead of working and paying tax.

Just because you don't understand the argument doesn't mean it's not there

So then people earning less than £12k should be taxed too. That will go down well 🙄

Even if they can't work due to a disability or because they are a carer?

does it include any benefits though? UC? PIP? Child benefit?

Personally, I don’t think someone working hard for a low income should pay any more tax. They are already contributing via their work. Those who claim and take expensive services should really pay in some form. Otherwise you are essentially decentivising anyone in a low income job. Why not sit on your arse and let others pay eh?

Why should someone that gets even less in benefits have to pay tax? You don't make any sense.
So someone who earns less then £12k - pays no tax.
Someone on benefits but also on less than £12k - pays tax.

That makes no sense.

But why should they pay more tax? Because they are more sucsessful, because they have worked harder? Wheres the benefit then and why would any corporation or potential corporation start their roots here.

I think approx 48% tax on their earnings and then 25% corporation tax on profits is plenty.

Yes but thats within the 30k yearly income, I'm not just counting mine and dp wages

If working for a business still leaves you so short of money that you need to top up with benefits then that business is costing us money and we need to recoup it

I have no family nearby and look after a child who is likely autistic and has never done more than a morning at nursery. I work weekends and school holidays though if you think I am lazy.

@eggsandsourdough yep but you are only paying that level of personal tax if paying both a highish sakary AND dividends on top - many do not - and pay next to no NI as many pay minimum of £12570 as salary -.and pay majority as dividend of which up to 50k are at 8% and no NI - and often then get their corp tax right down by sticking big sums into pension -. I myself am on that position so as stated I know the score - so a lot pleading poverty doesn’t wash with many - a great many are paying very little tax or NI .

I think if a resident parent chooses to claim benefits the income of the non resident parent should be assessed and maintenance should be paid into a state account to repay the tax-payer some of what they are forking out. Then non payment won't affect the resident parent but can be treated like non payment to HMRC is treated.

I also think parents that choise to cksim genefits should have to choose a resident parent and if they don't the courts should. This is so the parents can pay to raise their own child to the best of their abilities before asking anything of the tax payer. Rather than the "have them 50:50" so no-one pays maintenance and the tax payer picks up the tab.

You have many different circumstances, what a single person earns may be plenty for them to lve but what a married couple with 3 children earns doesnt touch the side for them to live even with a strict budget.
So should companies then look at each individuals family status and their outgoings?

Many many companies pay decent, above the national living wage but its still not enough.

Many families arent getting topped up with benifits because they dont "earn enough" they are topped up due to many different reasons, marriage breakdowns, childcare, or more children than they can afford.

Yep that’s a good idea

Being a carer is a choice not an obligation. I believe Scandinavian countries do not apply tax if you are handicapped, but other disabilities do pay tax on benefits.

So you would stick your child in an institution then instead of paying the parent to be a carer? It isn't a choice! It is what you do as a parent!

Being a carer is a choice not an obligation

Wow. Yeah @80smonster we all know that legally no one has an obligation to be a carer.

What you don't factor in with your pithy little phrase, is how little it takes into account people's feeling of obligation due to lack of choice (finances, lack of support, love etc).

So yeah, you can pull away all the support for carers if you want, based on it "being a choice", but society would fall apart without the role carers play.