To think we need a "label' in addition to SEND?

[ParentsToBlame]

I've name changed as I work in education and don't want this to bite me on the arse.

I feel like we're moving towards needing a "label" for children who are let down by parents and aren't functioning at an expected level as a result. Not those with SEN but those who just aren't being raised properly.

This includes, but there's more..

Children who aren't put to bed at a decent time and are too tired to cope at school

Children who can't eat with cutlery / use the toilet simply because they've not been taught to

Children who struggle to manage anxiety, not because they have an anxiety disorder but because parents say they "have anxiety" and don't support them with coping strategies

Children who are overweight because their parents feed them a poor diet, not because they have genuine ARFID etc

The list is endless. Schools haven't got the time or funding to deal with SEN etc but staff increasingly have to deal with these things in addition.

They dont need to be "needs" but Children are genuinely disadvantaged due to poor parenting. I totally accept that this is sometimes due to inability to parent, rather than willful want to do harm to their child's development

I'm absolutely not a perfect parent. My 14 year old is currently shovelling crisps down his neck and watching YouTube (he has however played 2 hours of footy today and has done all his homework) He'll be off to bed in 10 minutes

Its neglect. However is the toothbrush definitely true?
Some parents wont push kids who refuse so i guess i couod see some not having a toothbrush as kid wont brush anyway.

But imo a lot does tie into working ckass/state school permissive parenting.

-When dc1 was 4 we walked past a kid in class house and they at 4 had been left home alone by dad who had popped to the shop with younger sibling. The shoo was a 5 min walk.

• One kid we know hac a motorbike at 7-8 and would ride it on pavements to the park

But im not sure this is all the parents age 30-50 fault. A lot of behaviour issues are rooted in how my generation were parented. But also it wasnt ours who decided against the stricted punishments at home or school. It isnt surprising many oarents are ineffectual and intentionally soft on their kids.

Some stricted targets on potty training generally before 3 would help. Also that may highlight the sen kids who do tend to train later.

A lot of kids anxiety does seem to have been triggered by the covid time.

My middle child wouldn’t let me read to him. He hated it. If I sat him on my knee for a story he’d just jump off and run away. His brother and sister loved stories and grew up to be voracious readers. Our house is like a library, and they always had access to hundreds of books.

And no, I don’t have a cognitive disability myself. My DS was just impossible to read to.

I trust that you are aware of the deficits with the Dedicated Schools Grant? And the High Needs Stability Grant introduced last month to combat these deficits?

And the resulting complete revamp of how complex needs are assessed and supported - now with 'universal' (adaptive teaching), 'targeted' support (small catch up groups of 5 led by a TA), and 'targeted plus' (pupils with complex needs attend mainstream lessons and additionally spends an hour in an 'inclusion base' within the school with an ED or SLT).

From Sep 2028, every school will have to have an Inclusion Base - which should cost less than £100k per pupil to run, which is often the annual cost of independent special schooling.

The new tiers of support are: universal (zero cost), targeted (zero cost - TA is internal resource), and targeted plus (lower cost than independent special school).

So, regarding adding new labels for ADHD adjecent presentation such as Digital onset ADHD from early smartphone adoption reducing ability to focus or sit still, and Focus Deficit, etc.: all fine if it adds no cost and plonks these kids in the 'universal' or 'targeted' support tiers and costs nothing.

It's all an exercise in fiscal containment.

Neglected has been around a lot longer than SEN/SEND

but why oh why are people obsessed with putting labels on everyone and pigeon holing them. Drives me nutty

There are some children who manage despite, or even because, of bad parenting. Some of the highest achievers actually credit "bad parenting" with helping them achieve success, because they learned early they had to push themselves as no one else would.
So while what you say is no doubt true, bad parenting doesn't affect all children in the same way, just as some of us cope fine when we don't sleep well, some can't function the next day.
I also worry it could cause other issues-remember how autistic children were once said to have "refrigerator" mothers-and their condition was blamed on the parent?

But you tried. I’m not talking about people like you. I’m referring to people who don’t even have a single children’s book in their home. And yes, they do exist - I’ve worked for the NHS in a team that carry out home visits to families, and they’ve seen this firsthand. They just don’t see the point in trying to read their child/ren.

Do you know that some of these 'fine' children actually aren't fine? We did all sorts with DD3. The teacher made a 'smiley DD3' chart, so that she was rewarded every time she came into class without tears. I would carry her into school with her socks and shoes in my hands because I hadn't been able to get them on her. She developed a hand washing obsession after a Year R 'germ busters' topic. We had reward charts in year 2 because she still couldn't go into school well. In fact, in year 3 or 4, I took her to school on Christmas jumper day, handed the Head Teacher a bag and said 'She couldn't decide between jumper A and jumper B. There's some tinsel in the bag. She hasn't had breakfast and her hair isn't done, but she's on time.' I had spent the entire morning just trying to get her to the point that we could leave the house. The wonderful, firm but kind HT phoned and left a message an hour later to say "She's wearing the silver jumper, her hair is up, and we've snuck into the kitchen and cook has given us a couple of chocolate brownies. Well done Mum, you did exactly the right thing.'

She was much later diagnosed with ASD, ADHD, OCD and PTSD (from secondary school experiences). All that time that she was 'fine' except she wasn't. She's now in a special school despite being a grade 9 student.

DD2 was 'fine' and I was just anxious. No, she has ASD and is now in special school.

Hey, even DD1 was 'fine' and I was just a neurotic first time mum. No, she has a brain malformation, ASD, and learning disabilities.

Meh, that should say 'perpetuated', not 'perpetrated'. Autocorrect.

DD1 struggled to go to nursery, we held firm and did all the tricks and listened to conventional wisdom to get her in. And nursery swore blind she was fine there and she was happy…. Oh but she doesn’t really talk and has no friends. Meanwhile every day we were dealing with screaming meltdowns after pick up and it was hideous trying to get her dressed and keep her clothes on the get her out the door. And then by 3.5 after only two academic years she was so broken we couldn’t do it anymore. She was naked because she couldn’t stand the feeling of any clothes on her skin and screaming at every little thing and pulling her own hair out. By 3.5 years old.

So even years on we don’t force her to be dropped off, it’s not worth going back there. She’s on older and could get a lot more creative about hurting herself.

I don’t know why she’s so anxious, there’s autism but she’s not the only one and the anxiety is so extreme in her.

I’m very aware that to some people we look like wet lettuce parents but none of them will have to deal with the fall out of the affect of “tough love” on her.

I know there were kids like her when I was a child, I remember meeting one and being incredulous at the reason his mum removed him from school but if you asked DD about leaving nursery it would sound just as flippant. I think the numbers have increased as life and school has changed, people who just about coped and just really hated school I think would be much less likely to cope these days.

Completely agree with the OP

Nephew is diagnosed as autistic, ADHD and PDA.

It's like lord of the flies at my brother's house (his father). The child rulea the roost. Has every console going, sleeps never, games all night, eats utter junk.

No boundaries, expectations or consequences, ever.

And they wonder why they have a problematic child!!!!

There's a thread at the moment about 80's childhood, and for sure kids were neglected. But it seems to have been benign neglect, rather than utter failure to attempt to raise a child to adulthood

@Pistachiocake
Some of the highest achievers actually credit "bad parenting" with helping them achieve success, because they learned early they had to push themselves as no one else would

Random people in the street that suffered due to parental neglect and other forms of poor parenting, aren't usually invited to high circulation interviews to share their experiences, but teachers, social services, and the CPS can tell you what they see say in day out. The few success stories that you may read that cite their dysfunctional upbringing as the driver for their success don't discount the overwhelming majority that suffered emotionally and academically due to neglect.

I agree to a point.
new kid started at my child's school, only 9 years old, very rude and disrespectful, been distributing the class for months now, my child tells me they say awful stuff to the girls and are a bully to the boys. Woman walks to the school gates, lashes and fillers, satin PJ's on and arguing on her phone with it on loudspeaker. I knew she'd be the kids mum.

Also a dad swearing at his primary aged son on on the walk to school, telling him his making a prat of himself, calling him a fucking shit and threatening him, the boy is a known troublemaker at school and it's so upsetting seeing glimpses of what this kids life is like, school are aware, social services are aware. Then, you've got the "my kid my rules" parents who contact the school demanding no vegetables at lunch for their kid as it makes em sick and will only eat Nutella's sandwiches, sod all wrong with the kids, just shit parenting.

I have a kid with SEN, also my kid didn't attend school for 9 months due to their mental state so I know how tough it can be, I'm not a perfect mum, I do have morals, values and boundaries though. It's that so many parents really are just neglectful and ignorant, there are many of them sadly.

I didn't say the parents are anxious.

Its more that they are too soft/kind. They validate every emotion but a lot of children's feelings are excessive, disproportionate, selfish, immature etc, part of our role as parents is to not validated them all. We have to help our dc develop a sense of proportion or they wind up afraid of everything. Encourage them to try things they find a bit daunting to allow them to succeed & experience that feeling of having overcome their apprehension.

I have a friend who's dc is currently school refusing, thoroughly enabled by parents. Parent said to me a few months back, quite proudly "DC just doesn't feel safe at school. Its my duty as a parent to protect them from that."

Inside my head I was screaming "No, you should be reassuring your child that their leafy school is in Berkshire not Palestine, and that they do not know they are fucking born, and that your duty as parents is to ensure they receive the education & socialisation they need as adults to live, cope, work & participate in society."

I think actually a bit of benign neglect is ok. Too many kids are used to their parents placing them at the heart of everything, meeting their every "need". They are then are surprised when their child can't fit into anywhere.

10000% but this will be a very unpopular statement. As I said earlier I have happy settled children in front of me once dropped off by the parents..yet I have parents on here suggesting they are not ok..their children went on to have extreme anxiety around school etc.
This is the difficulty we have as teachers. We can only work with the children we have in front of us. If we are not seeing the behaviours parents describe so what can we do ? Assume all children are traumatised by their school experience (because I cheerfully supported them in the door )and are just hiding it well ? Or just get on with the day and assume all is well. I know my class well and as a nursery teacher spend a lot of time talking to them. If they end up with some school based anxiety it hasn't started here. Instead I have supported their confidence and resilience and social skills. I wish these parents would do the same.

Terrible parenting has reached epidemic levels. Parents aren’t teaching their kids that ‘feeling nervous’ is a completely normal emotion before tests, for example. Kids who have never stepped outside their comfort zone continue to avoid doing so. Parents don’t let their children develop any independence, or experience any mildly perilous situations. ‘Snowplough parenting’ is absolutely the correct term.

I’ve been in meetings with parents asking me to remove children from our school because they (the parents) don’t like them.

(Incidentally DS1 is AuDHD and just cracks on, loves school, he’s lucky I guess but I also take no shit )

It is absolutely not as simple as 'they just don't see the point'

The research on this is extensive.

Those who work in the NHS/social services in these areas are trained in the realities.

The neglect wasn't benign at all for a very large number of kids. Calling it 'benign neglect' is just dismissing the reality.

I have a friend who works in SEND. They have these ‘labels’
the child is not aware, neither would anyone else not directly involved.

the example of the trainers and no toothbrush is called ‘affluent neglect’

This is very insightful in my opinion. The issues that arise are often at the intersection of SEND, modern society, poverty and suboptimal parenting. Parenting a child with ADHD with no diagnosis or support in a world filled with screens is actually difficult, for example. Society is very quick to blame parenting, specifically mothers, for just about everything. Often parents who do eventually receive support for what turns out to be underlying SEND-related issues will have had to jump through hoops related to their parenting, like attending parenting courses. It doesn't surprise me that all parents can't jump through those hoops to access the inadequate support that exists, and that those parents end up being judged and blamed for everything by schools, perhaps especially when those parents are working class. Someone with ADHD that's unsupported could easily end up having late bedtimes, being anxious and addicted to caffeine in Monster because those are all basically hallmarks of the condition. It really helps if people can approach things with curiosity instead of judgment.

Because I have always lived in predominantly poorer areas and in social housing when I’ve seen children neglected it’s always been a few certain families that are absolutely in the cycle of poverty going back generations. Lots of families live like the ones on shameless/Jeremy Kyle. The way to end negligence in these homes is through educating parents, I know kids whose parents don’t provide toothbrushes or soap and have 7/8 kids, some in foster care now. Those kids don’t attend schools due to parents being too lazy to walk and they’re now “homeschooling”, but social services are involved. The importance of education on hygiene, food, education and social interaction and life skills/experience are met with ridicule. These parents are in active addiction often, my parents both were, and the kids grow up thinking this life is normal and it’s all most will achieve. I think those kids need support workers because their parents won’t do the basics and we know social services red tape won’t remove kids for not having toothbrushes or even in the cases of families I know, having suitable beds and filthy hoarder type homes.
The reality is social services are stretched, at least in my LA they are, they’d rather that children who are at risk of being abused or are being abused or living in DV homes or ones with parents addicted to heroin or crack are given priority over the kids who might go hungry or not have a mattress but aren't at imminent risk of being harmed are dealt with first.
I can’t comment on the type of negligence that occurs in more typically Mumsnet communities where people are seen more as permissive parents as opposed to negligent, but Im sure there are 1000s of families who aren’t poverty stricken and permanently unemployed who still don’t meet the basic needs of parenting. Those ones are almost harder to tackle Im sure. I think that’s why the recent case of Constance Marten was so shocking, we don’t expect wealthy parents to lose custody of their children do we?
It’s so sad how many kids failed, but I think back to the 4 girls in my class who had their babies under 16 and were completely neglected themselves it’s not a shock really, kids have been let down forever.

Schools do provide support to all children regardless of SEND or not. The thing that limits the amount they can provide isn't the lack of a label. Most children with SEND don't have an EHCP or funding for extra support.

I remember reading an autobiography of a GP who said that a lot of people, mainly women, would come in with symptoms of depression and he called it "shit life syndrome". Obviously he couldn't say this to the patients but he said some people had depression with no reason but there were people who were depressed because their life was just miserable.

I don't know how it could be done diplomatically but maybe shit life syndrome ought to be a thing you can be diagnosed with, for adults and children.