When does ‘lack of confidence’ cease being an excuse

[flapjack5]

My mum is early sixties. All of my life I remember my grandad (her dad) and my own dad doing everything for her. Arranging holidays, sorting bills, doing her garden for her that sort of thing. Very sadly in the last 8 years both have passed away and I would say my mum has really struggled to function since. She has given up her part time job and lives a very insular life with mainly vodka for company.

She never learned to drive. She never learned how to use tech. She has always been hugely anxious but with the help of my dad was still able to enjoy life, go on days out, holidays etc (always remember drink featuring heavily though). Without him she just doesn’t do anything. Not only that but she refuses to do anything that might make her life easier even learning how to do online shopping or banking. I have offered to show her. Offered to take her out. Her answer to everything is that she doesn’t have the confidence. At first I was sympathetic but it’s becoming difficult listening to her complain about how hard life is and how lonely she is when she won’t do the simplest of things to try and change things or learn how to live an easier, more fulfilling life.

She also refuses to seek help for her anxiety/MH issues. There’s no willingness to improve things and year on year her life is becoming smaller and more depressing. Has anyone ever dealt with a friend or family member like this? Is there any way to help them or do I just have to leave her to it?

I’ll admit from a selfish point of view I find it very hard having no meaningful support for me or my dc. A few weeks ago I had an emergency and nobody to look after dc as mum was drunk and in one of her strange moods. Couldn’t leave dc with her, never have for any length of time. Some days she seems more stable than others but on the whole she just doesn’t function like a normal person.

This is very difficult. I’m really sorry you’re going through it!

My grandmother was like this and to be honest we just had to watch as her life shrunk to a very small size. It is really hard but you can only try and convince them, and continue to try and convince them. But you can’t live their life for them. I suppose the only thing you can do is if it gets really awful you could do an adult social care referral for her.

I really don’t think she’d meet any threshold for adult social care. She is physically able to care for herself and has her own home etc. Mentally though she is a mess. I have begged her to go to the doctors, she has a real issue with even considering any sort of anti depressant or anti anxiety medication which baffles me because in her shoes I’d be trying anything to improve my MH and life. I do believe there’s some alcoholism going on and possibly she feels like the victim mentality justifies her drinking. In any case it’s very hard to watch.

It's a reason, rather than an excuse. You're describing lifelong mental health issues and alcoholism

Maybe she’s neurodiverse and the anxiety then alcoholism taken over. Often women weren’t diagnosed and those under average intelligence were kinda of left as expected they’d marry so nobody really bothered with them much and they left school at 16 hardly able to read and write.

She is not unintelligent, more lacking in confidence. I was the same growing up and have had anxiety issues too in adulthood. I have forced myself out of my comfort zone because I want to enjoy life and be able to do things with and for my children. She has never done this. I suppose this is my quandary - at what point does it stop being a choice? Is there anything that might make her change at this stage.

You might have the same problem (lacking in confidence) but they probably stem from different reasons, but even if they were the same reasons you have different personalities.

Your mum has the added layer of being an alcoholic which will cloud all her decisions.

During menopause my confidence plummeted to the point I couldn't do banking unless face to face as I suddenly seem to have number blindness which I didn't have before, which means online shopping or taxi apps or paying car parking fees are suddenly out of reach. It also manifested as fear/panic of driving even to the local supermarket. I am unable to have HRT or other medication so I am slowly clawing my way out but from reading this site it is quite a common side effect of menopause.

Then you need to add the layer of whether your mum wasn't "allowed" to do anything by her dad or husband and so stopped fighting to try and learn to be independent. She could be in the freeze position and unable to unlock.

Learned helplessness, they know that as long as they rail and whine and moan, that they will always find some poor schmuck who will look after them to their own detriment

Online banking has been mainstream since, say, the 2000s - when she was only in her thirties. And she’s by no means old, now, at all!

Her helplessness would annoy me, too, OP. We all have to do things that aren’t easy for us, sometimes to avoid being a burden on others.

Both my dad and grandad were traditional men I suppose in the sense that they thought it was their job to take care of these things. My mum has always been passive and anxious so she was probably happy to let them. But they aren’t here anymore and haven’t been for a while. I know many bereaved people and while all have struggled, many have learnt new ways to live and thrive. It’s not that I think it’s easy, it’s just that she’s so unwilling to even try. It’s her life and there is ultimately nothing I can do to force anything but the victim mentality is jarring. There comes a point when we all have to take responsibility for our choices, health and happiness.

You are correct that the alcoholism clouds her judgement and probably encourages her to continue in this cycle.

My dad is similar. I visit once a week, ring once a week. I do order his prescriptions for him and will order stuff online if he needs it . He comes to us for Xmas, I’ve told him he’s welcome other times but no longer offer. I’ve accepted his life is small but it’s his choice not my responsibility

It's sad to see how little empathy there is for your mother. Having been looked after all her life due to the anxiety, it must be extremely hard and frightening for her to find herself in this situation.

Anxiety is severely debilitating and it's not ideal that she is self medicating with alcohol, as proper medication would probably help her more. She has lost her support system when your GF and DF died, and as she has been unwell her entire life, it is unreasonable to expect things to change without a lot of intervention and a support system being set up.

Agree with others that your mum has been unwell her whole life and has been able to enjoy some quality of life as she’s been supported by and felt safe with, your dad and father. They’ve both gone, do you honestly expect she’d suddenly change?
I do sympathise as it must be difficult for you not to be-able to rely on your mum and to see her wasting her life.
I’d be inclined to keep suggesting getting support and help but if she’s not willing to go for help there isn’t much you can do.

it is unreasonable to expect things to change without a lot of intervention and a support system being set up
so things won’t change? Ops mum doesn’t have to take on any personal responsibility? It’s everyone else who has to provide the support system?

I understand this and believe me, I have empathised. I have tried and tried to the detriment of my own mental health at times. But support systems and interventions need some willingness from her surely?

The more time goes on the less likely it is that she will change. But I find it very hard to deal with especially when she has been drinking. She has to want to make changes and she won’t. Whether that’s due to alcoholism or anxiety or a combination of both I don’t know.

I know she is suffering and I know she has mental health problems but when she flatly refuses to do anything about it I just don’t know what else I can do.

@flapjack5 dont be guilted into continuing your caring/dogsbody role for your mum, your mental health and wellbeing are just as important as hers.

Not quite the same situation but I saw my mother lose her confidence in her 60s and she self medicated with alcohol. It was frustrating to see at times but it wasn’t until I got to the age as she was then that I understood it. You can feel more vulnerable as you age and your mum has had support up to a certain point and now lost it. Trying new things can be challenging to some older people as the status quo is where they feel safe and your mum has a history of anxiety to start off with. Try and have a bit more compassion for her rather than getting so frustrated though easier said than done as I know. I wish I’d had more compassion for my own mum’s difficulties.

Both my dad and grandad were traditional men I suppose in the sense that they thought it was their job to take care of these things. My mum has always been passive and anxious.

There you go then. How old was she when your dad died? Because that is exactly how long she has been conditioned not to think for herself. You can't snap your fingers and suddenly become a well rounded and capable human being.

As for what you can do now? It depends how involved you want to be really. Personally it would be kind to do at least the minimum help such as are you able to set up DDs for utilities etc, possibly become (can't think of correct word) POA? Can you set up a gardener/cleaner/shopper? Do a once a month online food shop? And then step back. She will never be able to look after your DC just because she is an alcoholic. That's a nobrainer in my book.

Sorry OP, it must be a horrendous shock to you but don't blame all this on your mother. Maybe blame it on your grandfather and father (or social conditioning) for taking away her independence.

I agree with this & also have huge sympathies for you too Op as it’s hard to watch / live with someone you care about being this way.

Don’t feel guilty about stepping back and doing the minimum. As we’ve said she’s been ill a very long time, alcohol is making that much worse. Only she can make a change.

We had to give my in laws an ultimatum. MIL is stubborn, selfish and manipulative. They live 45 mins away but expect us to drop everything to help them. She has multiple health issues including cancer and diabetes (which she doesn’t manage properly), FIL is lovely but is very submissive to MIL and never stands up for what he wants. He also has Parkinson’s so can’t do very much physically. All their money was tied up in their house so had no money for help.
They were running our lives, we even had to cancel a summer holiday inorder to help them through yet another crisis. After that DH told them they either moved closer to us or they couldn’t rely on us other than a weekly weekend visit. That shocked MIL and she agreed to move from their very inappropriate large house to a 2 bed bungalow 5 mins away from us. Not surprisingly both their health has improved so much because they have money in the bank for help and they have a much smaller house to manage.

It was awful making that ultimate but in the end was the best thing we did, for them and us.

My mil is very similar, although in her 70s. She’s almost certainly an undiagnosed autistic person. My daughter is very similar and has a diagnosis. Mil has had years of poor mental health and eating disorders. Although it’s very tough, I think you might need to reframe it in your mind as not just ‘lack of confidence’ but supporting someone with a disability. How far you’re prepared to do that is up to you.

This. She has clearly been supported by people all her life, even to do what most would think simple tasks. She is not suddenly going to be able to do that just because her support network aren't there to do it. She's allowed to feel lonely, I'm sure she feels incredibly lonely.

What @WinterBlues26 said. My mother is the same, and has delegated all engagement with the world, decisions, finances etc to my father since they married in 1970. However, it is absolutely equally his fault. It has never seemed to occur to him to consult her, despite all of their adult children pointing this out repeatedly. He has repeatedly made disastrous decisions that affected us all, but only her since we all left home. They’re both in their eighties, my mum doesn’t use tech and doesn’t even have a mobile, and my father does all the bills, banking etc online and refuses to give any of us log in information etc, even when we point out our mother will be destitute if he dies first.

My MIL was similar with the learned helpless side and it was a very difficult situation. All of the empathy in the world didn’t change that she was entirely dependent on others for the most basic things for her entire life and she was very manipulative about forcing her needs ahead of other people’s. It is an incredibly complex dynamic because while empathy is always important it is precisely empathy that is weaponised so it is the right combination of empathy and boundaries that are necessary. I think framing boundaries with suggestions to help herself is probably the best you can do.

You have my sympathy OP. Doesn’t matter what the causes of someone’s problems are, the frustration for you is the same. There’s the saying “You don’t have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm”. Don’t set yourself on fire trying to solve her problems!
You’re not going to change her mindset because she’s a professional victim by now, and if she doesn’t want to / can’t change her behaviour, nothing you can say will persuade her. Don’t waste your time trying. All you can do is decide where your boundaries are and stick to them. Do what you can to help without damaging your life and your family. If she complains, gently point out there are things she could do to help herself if she chose to. Don’t be emotionally blackmailed into doing it for her. Good luck!

She’s an alcoholic and selfish as most of them are. Your DF was her enabler. She needs to stop drinking but she won’t! There is nothing you can do and you must put yourself first as she chooses to put the alcohol first.