When does ‘lack of confidence’ cease being an excuse

[flapjack5]

My mum is early sixties. All of my life I remember my grandad (her dad) and my own dad doing everything for her. Arranging holidays, sorting bills, doing her garden for her that sort of thing. Very sadly in the last 8 years both have passed away and I would say my mum has really struggled to function since. She has given up her part time job and lives a very insular life with mainly vodka for company.

She never learned to drive. She never learned how to use tech. She has always been hugely anxious but with the help of my dad was still able to enjoy life, go on days out, holidays etc (always remember drink featuring heavily though). Without him she just doesn’t do anything. Not only that but she refuses to do anything that might make her life easier even learning how to do online shopping or banking. I have offered to show her. Offered to take her out. Her answer to everything is that she doesn’t have the confidence. At first I was sympathetic but it’s becoming difficult listening to her complain about how hard life is and how lonely she is when she won’t do the simplest of things to try and change things or learn how to live an easier, more fulfilling life.

She also refuses to seek help for her anxiety/MH issues. There’s no willingness to improve things and year on year her life is becoming smaller and more depressing. Has anyone ever dealt with a friend or family member like this? Is there any way to help them or do I just have to leave her to it?

I’ll admit from a selfish point of view I find it very hard having no meaningful support for me or my dc. A few weeks ago I had an emergency and nobody to look after dc as mum was drunk and in one of her strange moods. Couldn’t leave dc with her, never have for any length of time. Some days she seems more stable than others but on the whole she just doesn’t function like a normal person.

Given the amount of sympathy given to anxious ND teens/ young adults who need massive amounts of support the lack of sympathy for an older lady who has suddenly seen her support network disappear is surprising but indicitive of the ageism on mumsnet.

Of course you don't put your life on hold for her but can you look into what support networks may be available and help her access them, by going with here initially if necessary.

I agree with pp who say that you can't expect her to suddenly be able to do things she's never done. But I also agree that you can expect her to learn, with support to do so.

It sounds like you have offered that support to learn. I would say to her, Mum I am happy to teach you to do X, Y, and Z. That offer is open to you any time. I am also happy to make you a GP appointment and attend with you if you wish. If you do these things you can hopefully be much happier. But if you don't want to of course I can't force you. But neither will I continue to do everything for you. It's your choice.

In the 1980s strategic incompetence was desirable for women. Being rubbish with maps, not being able to drive, 'don't ask me about the bills my husband handles all of that' - was all appealing to men and wider society, and en vogue. Intelligent women often adopted this persona.

Over time, this performative femininity can transform into a state of learned helplessness where the brain is no longer able to learn new skills resulting in paralysis when the partner and primary protector passes away.

This impacts the adult children. As opposed to having someone look after your child when you are in a pinch, it's like you having another child to look after as you have to manage their admin, GP & shopping runs, and online tasks - which adds to your workload.

You are not alone in this situation and I feel for you. All you can do is be persistent with your efforts to educate and hold that necessity forces her to take those small initial steps to independence.

Women weren’t allowed to have any say in financial matters until the mid 1970s. They had to get their father or H’s signature for a bank account or a mortgage. It wasn’t a “persona” it was reality!
It took a while for women and men to get used to the idea of women being involved in these things.

Really good answer here @flapjack5

I’m a couple of months off 65 and I am amazed that your mother has never learned to use tech. Has she never had a job? Can she use a smartphone?

OP my mum is like this but without the drinking. She can only use a mobile phone to make or accept calls. She can’t drive , she can’t text, can’t use an atm machine or pay by card or do online shopping. I blame my dad. My dad who I think was ND was obsessed with refusing to learn new things as “that’s not for them”. The simplest of things was a fucking saga. Also my sister definitely enabled them by doing everything for them. Now my dad is in a nursing home and mums life is miserable. And it’s like the blinkers have only now come off where she sees other women her age living life to the full and being very independent . And just to add mum worked fulltime all her life and was very sociable and outgoing and my dad also worked full time until age 70 so not people locked away from society.

Quite! I was referring to the 80s however which was a decade later and was trying to highlight that learned helplessness was not indicative of a lack of intelligence - hence 'persona' indicating that it was performance as opposed to 'they weren't able to do it'.

If she's honest about her drinking the GP won't refer her to regular MH talking therapies. Even if she wanted them. They'd refer her to the alcohol service. So ultimately she'd need to want to stop drinking and sort her life out but sadly I don't think she sounds like she's willing to do that.

She has had a part time job in a shop for many years but it doesn’t require any use of tech. She can operate a smartphone in basic ways - WhatsApp, some social media, google searches etc but she won’t use apps and doesn’t like online shopping or banking even though it would make her life so much easier.

I don’t think she is ND at all by the way. People can have mental health issues and personality quirks without a diagnosis. She definitely suffers from anxiety however and uses alcohol to medicate.

There is no lack of empathy. I have tried. There comes a point when she has to learn and start fending for herself. I have dc and a job and zero help other than Dh who also works. Why is it ok for me to struggle just because she refuses help?

This.

My Mum is the exact same OP so you have my sympathies.
It is completely frustrating and my patience for it is very very thin atm.

You're angry she hasn't approached her life the way you've approached yours. Remember you grew up in a different era, a different generation. Plus presumably you are not alcohol dependent?

There is nothing external to her that can make her change.

I’m really sorry you’re in this situation, and wish I had something practical to suggest. Unfortunately some people are just really shit at life - even the most basic, mundane, everyday tasks, are some kind of unconquerable summit or source of massive anxiety. Drinking doesn’t help, although probably makes them feel like it does.

We’re here for a short time and it’s a tragedy some people are unable to make the most of it. I’d just concentrate on living the best life you can, as any change needs to come from your mother.

I would imagine she is overwhelmed. She is used to rightly or wrongly been taken care of all her life and suddenly that rug has been pulled from under her and she is on her own in a very challenging world. Things like online banking are simple for most but not if you have not kept up with technology and you are hearing about scams all the time and do not have the confidence to identify them. Likewise with online shopping etc.

Sadly some people of that generation feel ashamed of mental illness so refuse to do anything about it. I suspect that she is using drink to self medicate.

The reality is she is unlikely to change or have the skills to change.

Your last sentence here, plus some of what you’ve shared regarding your attempts to support her, suggests that this is a boundary issue. You’re not responsible for her. You don’t have to struggle. You can live your life according to your own choices, including how much time you spend supporting her. It may be frustrating for you, but it’s up to her how she lives. If she wanted to change, she very likely would.

Sadly I agree. My MIL was exactly the same. Always had her father to do everything for her until she married, then her husband did everything for her. Then when her husband died, my DH ended up doing everything for her. The thing was she was actually pretty intelligent, but had just got into the "little woman" habit where she always had a man doing everything for her. I think she thrived on the attention.

When she "had" to do something, she managed, but she made a massive song and dance about everything, it was just easier for her, firstly, husband, and then, her son, to do it all if she could make them do it. I think also a lot of it was attention seeking.

As for the "learned helplessness", a big yes. She never even learned how to ride a bike, never learned how to swim, never learned to drive a car.

Thankfully, she never went down the alcoholic route, even when at her lowest after her husband died suddenly.

I found it really hard to understand as my own Mum was a self motivated career women, even back in the 50s and 60s, she learned to drive in the 50s before my father, had two different professions after having retrained in the 60s, always worked full time and even had a second job in the evenings, was definitely wearing the trousers in the house as she controlled the finances, decided on big purchases, sourced tradesmen for house repairs, etc. That makes it sound like my father was a wimp, but he really wasn't - he was a manager in his profession, looking after his workplace, recruiting/managing lots of staff, so was happy to leave "the house and family" to his wife, who in turn thrived on being in control of the home and family. I never really identified at all with MIL who didn't seem interested in doing anything beyond cooking and cleaning and didn't even have any hobbies - she often said things like "Fred didn't want more than 2 children", "Fred decided to call him John" etc - clearly dominated by her husband and that never seemed to be a problem for her!

That's not learned helplessness.

Learned helplessness is when you try to escape something and are literally unable to. Then after a while of trying and failing, you learn that trying to help yourself is futile.

Then even if the way out is suddenly very clear, you won't take it because you're conditioned to think helping yourself accomplishes nothing.

My mother is the same but she doesn't drink. She constantly complains about how lonely and depressed she is but refuses to do anything to help herself. Any suggestions are shot down with ridiculous excuses. She's only in her early 60s but you'd think she was in her 80s the way she goes on. To be honest I think she wants her kids to be her carers and do everything for her and sit with her all day. But we're all busy with our own families, jobs etc. Selfishly im on my own with 4 kids (1 sen) and I just dont have the capacity to look after her too. Especially when she could help herself in so many ways.

Given OP’s mother is more than happy with the status quo, yes. She isn’t going to change anything herself unless forced to.

Honestly OP it sounds like the issue is less anxiety and more that she is an alcoholic. I don’t think you’ll get far with her while she is still drinking, and even then if she has been drinking heavily for years there is likely permanent cognitive damage.

I wouldn't rely on the armchair diagnoses from posters who have only had a snapshot of your mum's life. All I would say is that you don't have to step into the void that your dad has left. She either helps herself, seeks help from professionals and/or charities, or lives a much smaller life.

I think its pretty common for one of a couple to depend on the other
For being the cook
Driver
Organiser of children
Online bills and banking

Thefact so many now have both of a couple surviving to old age makes issues like this seem less common.
But 100% my parents and pil would severely struggle if either partner died. One of each cant really drive in new areas, a different one has reading issues so couldnt do bills or paperwork

I do agree that in your mums case she maybe autistic. Anxiety issues driving, self medication

Would your mother enjoy some art supplies?
Drawing paper, pencils, canvases and paints.
It would be great if she could make a friend or two.
Does she enjoy some reruns of TV shows?
Suggest she gets a taxi to the bank once a week.
Give her the contact details of AA.

This in spades. ☝️

I'm not saying it isn't shit @flapjack5, it most definitely is. You are part of what is referred to as The Sandwich Generation.

Of course you can step away from looking after your mother as PPs have suggested. It will not though give her a sudden epiphany, or force her to take responsibility, things will just get worse. You need to be sure that you are ok with that or that will break you too.

Step over to the Elderly Parents board and the Cockroach Cafe to see just how bad things can get. Unless people have been through it, they have very little understanding of the dynamics involved in many of these situations. There is a noticeable lack of support from the NHS, social services or any of the myriad organisations that purport to offer help but in reality do very little except make you realise that you are very much on your own dealing with whatever particular elder care situation you find yourself in.