It’s another ND one

[Knittingunwittingly]

I’m sure I am going to get flamed for this, but here goes…

I attend a local craft group with 8 other regulars. Seven out of 8 of them have either been diagnosed ND (mostly ADHD) themselves or some/all of their DC have, or both. I also strongly suspect that I am ND, and possible one of my DC is too.

I know I am arguing against myself here because I suspect myself of being neurodivergent, but if ND is becoming more common than NT, then surely NT is no longer NT? Or, is it that us ND birds of a feather flock together, as it were?

YABU it just so happens that you have landed amongst a ND bunch, and this is not reflective of society at large.
YANBU we are pathologising normal human experience and potentially over diagnosing neurodivergence.

No, there aren’t now more people with neurodevelopmental disorders than there were before, though diagnostic criteria and understanding of the meaning of some of these conditions is expanding, to capture more people. So you may meet the current criteria to diagnose but wouldn’t have 25 years ok. My clear ADHD as a teenager was diagnosed bipolar because there was no reference for ADHD and teenage girls hormones.

Yes, neurodivergent people do often cluster together. Because why wouldn’t you want to hang out with people who you’re more likely to vibe with? For us ADHDers that’s often because our communication style involves jumping around topics/going on tangents, starting stories in the middle, or bonding by sharing our similar experience (which is often interpreted it as ‘making it all about us’ by people who don’t share that communication style)

Diagnosed autistic here. I absolutely doubt my diagnosis, or think it is simply a natural variety of human, and seeing how badly affected autistic people with high needs are now that the criteria is so diluted I am considering a second opinion (will go private as I don't want to take up NHS resources)

Yes I fit the criteria, but if so many of us do then then criteria must be too wide to be useful. Just make workplaces nice for everyone, and suddenly 50% of people don't need a diagnosis.

Thanks for your perspective. Yes, the criteria are so wide. And some things, like not being motivated to do things you don’t like doing, seem to apply to the majority of the population!

You are experiencing selection bias; it is well-documented that certain hobbies and indeed jobs attract ND people (see: the stereotypes about train spotting and people who work in IT)

What an original concept for a thread.

'I’m sure I am going to get flamed for this, but here goes…'

Said by no-one in good faith, ever.

You are in a craft hobby group. Of course it is full of ND people 🤣

😆

Not being motivated to do things you don't like doing isn't a criteria for an ND diagnosis though is it. Statements like this are really unhelpful because now those who want to latch on to another reason why we're all 'over diagnosed' will be 'well I saw on mumsnet people who aren't motivated to do things they don't like are all getting diagnosed as autistic' when they're not and never have been.

What a pointless response on a thread.

I agree somewhat with both your statements. I do think ND can be over diagnosed (especially in a case of self diagnosis), but I also think that if 8 people were chosen randomly from the population it would be very unlikely for them to all be ND. So I also agree with your "birds of a feather" comment. Most of the people I know are NT.

Posting two negative responses in quick succession is hardly showing good faith either.

Onwards…

Regardless of NT or ND, it is useful to know how your brain processes information and work arounds for areas you struggle with. Wouldn't it be wonderful to get to a situation where everyone understands their strengths and needs?

A sample size of 8 isn't representative at a population level.

Crafting (particularly fibre arts of any kind) is an overwhelmingly ND pursuit. See also rock climbing.

I think some hobbies do attract more ND people, I am in a hobby group where I suspect many are ND.

I do wonder where the boundary lies between certain things just being your personality vs actually being ND. Like some people just don’t like loud places, struggle socially etc but that’s just personality. Doesn’t mean they need a diagnosis.

I do know some ND people closely who aren’t able to lead a normal life and struggle in many many ways, and they are in a very different situation to the people I know who identify as ND because they don’t like itchy clothes or going to busy places and like a slower pace of life.

I wholeheartedly agree this would be wonderful. Is expanding the diagnostic criteria for ASD and ADHD the way to do it though? Genuine question. I don’t have the answers, but have been pondering it. 🤔

I'm dyslexic but I don't consider myself ND. Because, in every other way, my brain is pretty NT so it just seems silly to me to to claim to be something I don't feel like I am.

Maybe it's just my friendship group or my DDs school, but the amount of ND adults and children I know is very high. But I think there has always been a high percentage of ND people, people are just being open about it now and talking about it, which is wonderful. But there is a difference between having several traits and literally struggling to function.

Exactly what I have been thinking about. It seems like many introverts get diagnosed with ASD, but maybe they don’t like parties and loud noises because they are introverts?

the thing is if, say, 1 in 4 people are actually ND that is going to look like a huge explosion of people suddenly being ND, will feel like every other person and their children are all ND and that there’s been a huge increase compared to previous times… but it still means 75% of the population are NOT neurodivergent.

It’s birds of a feather. I am nd (audhd), so are my dh and our 3 dc - dh and I didn’t know until our dc started struggling (and 2 of them didn’t struggle too much until secondary school, although looking back the signs were there). My sister and her dc are also nd and our parents almost certainly are/were. So it runs in families. Then the majority of our friends have dc with diagnoses and some are perusing diagnoses themselves. Friends from school are now getting diagnosed too. There is a reason hardly any of my friends are nt - nt people don’t tend to like me (nor I them).

I do also agree that it’s more a case of natural human variation, but modern life is set up for NTs, which is the cause of many of our struggles. Even just 100 years ago life would have been easier for many and certainly the further back you go, the easier it is to see that many of the anxieties we suffer would not be so continually exacerbated. Eg - I am from a farming background and dh’s family were fishermen - both of these lifestyles would have suited us better.

Both adhd and autism are under diagnosed in this country and rates for both are low.

Hope that helps.

That is very interesting, thank you.

I SO agree with this. I am not designed to commute on a busy train, sit still in a desk chair, move numbers from one cell to another. I am designed to be a craft person in a quiter space, with all the focus, deep knowledge and moving around that this entails. I would have been a weaver, making something beautiful and functional while operating a large loom.

The problem here is assuming you know what is going on inside someone’s head - you have no idea how hard some nd people are working just to get through the day as they mask their difficulties.

Yes, some people are more profoundly affected in some areas - it is a spiky spectrum and all nd people are on it. I have a lot of sensory issues for example, which isn’t even covered on the AQ50 and therefore I only score 17. I’m still autistic. My adhd ‘spikes’ are huge however, and often overpower my autistic traits (they are still there cowering in the background while I fuck myself up to the point of burnout over and over again though). No one would look at me and see any of this.

Well you are not in the minority in that group as none of you have a diagnosis have you? No diagnosis, no ND.