It’s another ND one

[Knittingunwittingly]

I’m sure I am going to get flamed for this, but here goes…

I attend a local craft group with 8 other regulars. Seven out of 8 of them have either been diagnosed ND (mostly ADHD) themselves or some/all of their DC have, or both. I also strongly suspect that I am ND, and possible one of my DC is too.

I know I am arguing against myself here because I suspect myself of being neurodivergent, but if ND is becoming more common than NT, then surely NT is no longer NT? Or, is it that us ND birds of a feather flock together, as it were?

YABU it just so happens that you have landed amongst a ND bunch, and this is not reflective of society at large.
YANBU we are pathologising normal human experience and potentially over diagnosing neurodivergence.

I agree OP, I think we are far too quick to pathologise what is a normal spectrum of behaviour. Seems you can't sneeze these days without someone giving you an armchair diagnosis of neurodiversity. I think it's unhelpful and actually stigmatises normal differences rather than encouraging acceptance.

This is fundamentally not the case though is it? People dont suddenly BECOME ND the day hey get their diagnosis! They have - by definition- been affected since childhood

What do you mean? The OP says that some of them do have a diagnosis.

You've summed this up so well 👏🏻

I do think autism is a normal variant and considering most mathematicians, inventors, software engineers etc, are autistic it's a useful variant for society. The problem is that we've engineered a life that we find incredibly damaging.

Oh I see @weareallcats has said what I was planning to say!

ND diagnostic criteria has become more broad and inclusive, (if you look hard enough and you want to find symptoms you can, many criteria are fairly subjective) which will make it increasingly meaningless. I suspect we will see a move back towards categorisation in order to differentiate within that huge spectrum, because as OP you rightly point out, we all vary neurodevelopmentally to a lesser or greater degree.

How ignorant, autism has 3 particular areas that need to have a significant impact on life.

Which bit? (I work in this field)

Autistic traits need to have a significant impact on life , it’s not useful for those that have it and wasn’t 50 or even 100 years ago. It has worked its way through generations of my family,Many mask and hide the huge difficulties autism comes with.

Yet another ignorant, dismissive and unpleasant thread on the subject.

No one gets diagnosed with ASD just because they don't like parties and are an introvert. To suggest that's the case is absurd and offensive.

And no, just because your little niche group happens to attract ND people doesn't mean that the majority of people are now ND. 20% of the population are thought to be ND which means 80% of people are not.

And if you 'suspect' you and your kid are ND just because you don't like parties then I would 'suggest' that you don't waste your Dr's time requesting an assessment.

Honestly I get so sick of these ignorant. offensive threads.

Yes me too, always start with” I know I’m going to get flamed …”

@Knittingunwittingly I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see a post like this.
Increased awareness should lead to more generalised understanding of what does amount to human variation. Then diagnosis should be for those with very clear high support needs who can't function day to day without it.
Every other post on here is someone claiming themselves, partners or children to have ND and/or MH issues, generally as an excuse for behaviour or avoidance.
Thank you!

I think the real issue is that nd itself is so diverse and one nd person can find life excruciating and can go through life barely functioning and have the same diagnosis as others who have degrees, careers and live a successful and normal life overcoming hurdles as they arise, this then makes a mockery of people who struggle on a different level and can’t do as much for themselves because others find strategies and manage to mask and meet the expectations of the nt so the assumption is so can all nd people and then support is resented by people who don’t need it but have the same conditions, you see this with work adaptions but while one person may have to try a bit harder to succeed another may need those adaptations to be able to go to work which is what I’m sure people are wanting them to do because there’s resentment towards any who don’t find work when other nd can.

You also have to consider that lots of conditions are co-morbid and can exacerbate other symptoms such as learning difficulties alongside autism, adhd and anxiety all at a severe level will look a lot different and may mean someone cannot work but will not necessarily meet the criteria not to work so will spend most of their lives in and out of jobs they cannot manage while others who also meet the criteria for nd diagnosis but are high functioning are managing successful careers.
It’s an invisible disability though so you can’t see how it affects people differently which is why expectations are the same and usually based on the high functioning level as it’s been proven possible by some.

Why have no NTs joined your group? Surely if the group are all just a quirk of normal then there’d be 50% NT too.
Maybe you’re not as NT as you believe you are

Possibly true. As I do not know a single person who has this diagnosis. Both my kids also don’t have a single friend with any diagnoses as well

This is so interesting and fits with my thinking about ND people who are able to (just about) function, as opposed to those with severe and debilitating symptoms. I feel like I’ve been masking my whole life and trying to fit in ( with varying degrees of success).

I had a breakdown about 18 months ago and have found that time alone doing my childhood (only child) hobbies around being with animals and in nature are helping massively to keep my mental health on an equilibrium. I feel calmest when I’m riding and caring for my horse or walking my dog alone in the woods.
Also from a farming background, I feel that the recent history of British society, with the Industrial Revolution and the later move to digital and call centre working means that society has been engineered in a way that normalises personalities and behaviour that fit the prevailing working landscape. We need to operate in the modern world to get the resources we need to survive so some of us who don’t do well working to a strict regime or schedule, being in doors or socialising and arse kissing in the required way either sink or mask and try to fit in, to the detriment of our mental health.

I didnt realise till my own diagnosis how many people I was around that I gravitated towards or gravitated towards me had ND. Birds of a feather and that lol I am in an autism group solely for adults with autism and/or adhd and everyone in the group feels like we almost have a hive mind in a way.

This is strange to see this thread as I have been thinking the same lately. I have a child recently diagnosed with AuDHD and it has slowly been dawning on me lately that I hold many traits of this diagnosis and possibly that has been the source of all my issues over the years (struggled a lot in school with day dreaming and impulsivity, previously struggled to stay in a job as I get bored and impulsively quit, need to wfh as I can’t get myself into an office or go on a work trip, can’t do things like dentist, hairdressers, GP, wiped out after social visits, time blindness, racing thoughts, life long insomnia, life long social anxiety, loads of sensory issues, special interests and ‘quirks’). I take antidepressants and propanolol to try and get through the day.
But I’ve noticed recently all my friends have started saying they have ADHD, and I think surely we can’t all have it? Is this just not normal then if everyone feels like this?

You can’t look at a group of 9 people who are all members of the same club and assume that they are representative of society as a whole. You need a much larger sample (1000?) and they need to be demographically representative of the population you are looking at. I’m not sure what demographics would be best here but you would want a balance of males and females and probably educational levels, income and age.

I’ve often seen on here that soon there are going to be more NDs than NTs. It may feel like that but that is never going to the case unless NDs start having far more babies than NTs.

If your child is ND, it is highly likely that either you, their dad or both of you are ND.

But not everybody of even the majority are ND (see my PP on this). If you’re ND, it’s also highly likely that you get on better with ND people.

This is so true! I realized a couple of years ago that I do not fit into the modern working world. For years I struggled to understand how everyone else could do the rigid 9-5, meetings etc. I tried for years, always quitting and trying new things, trying to find where I fit. It’s only now that I realized I am not built for that environment and I am much better either out in nature or wfh that I am finally settled in a role. I often say to friends that humans are not built for sitting at desks 9-5 but maybe this is my ND talking.

ND people definitely tend to hang out together - even if they don’t realise.

I have different groups of friends. With my NT friends I do feel more on edge, really trying not to interrupt, over share or make it all about me! It can be a bit exhausting.

When I hang out with my ND (ADHD) friends I’m so much more relaxed and we all just interrupt each other and go off on crazy tangents but have the best conversations. Apparently our nervous systems are more relaxed around similar people- we don’t have to mask.

Also certain hobbies will attract more ND people. I can see why craft would calm your brain. My wild swimming group - all ADHD seeking dopamine!!

It’s underdiagnosed so we are really playing catch up. Nobody had ADHD when I was growing up apparently.
onky now it’s evident that loads of kids did. They are only being diagnosed when their kids are really. Especially women.

In the school I work at 89 children in the current Year 11 have been given access arrangements for their exams - that's out of a total year group of 230. That's nearly 40%!
I have worked in exams for about 15 years and the number of children with a diagnosis of some kind increases every year.

You can have arrangements for all sorts of SEN that is nothing to do with ND.

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