Do you think a women's size 16 is fat?

[LegencyMonsters]

Met a friend for coffee today and we got onto the topic of weight.

I mentioned that I used to be a size 16 and said I’m glad I’m not that size anymore as I was fat. She disagreed, saying a size 16 isn’t fat and pointed out that it’s actually the average size for women in the UK. I replied that while it may be the average, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not fat.

Would you consider a size 16 to be fat or not?

AIBU - YES - of course!
YANBU - NO - Not fat at all!

If normal height yes, though I don’t like the word‘fat’ and prefer ‘overweight’. But if you’re my height, just under 6’, a size 14 can be quite slim so a 16 not too bad.
The fact it’s the average size just indicates that people are heavier, not that it’s not overweight.

Absolutely agree. I think it's a disservice to women to dance around facts about weight and body fat - we're adults, I don't see why pretending there are no health implications to excess body fat is empowering.

I completely get that the media and society pushes extreme skinniness as the beauty standard and that we're shamed into being smaller, that's real, no doubt. But to me the alternative can't be to pretend that being overweight is healthy, or that just because overweight is now standard that makes it risk-free.

But if you could get a tall or long size 12 for example wouldn't you fit in that? Or would it still not be long enough?

I think this sums up the issue with the word fat. The emotional reaction.

on a side note i can’t work out why someone is going on about clothes sizes 50 years ago, no one is asking if a sixe 16 was fat 50 years ago,

anyway the fact of the matter is most women at a size 16 are overweight. Very few are so muscular that wouldn’t be the case, particularly as muscle on women tends to make us leaner, it takes a huge amount of effort for a woman to bulk out with muscle.

is overweight the same as being fat. Yes. But the word is something that upsets some people.

Wouldn’t you just buy longer length clothes? Surely the clothes wouldn’t fit anywhere else?

You’ve lost me. Doesn’t this..

A size 16 isn't fat. Ever.

….mean the opposite of this….?

A person who wears a size 16 may be fat but not necessarily so.

"Do you think a women's size 16 is fat"?
That was the op's question. A womens' size 16 is a piece of clothing. A piece of clothing cannot be fat.

"Eats Shoots and Leaves" was a very good book.

Because people think it means ugly, unlovable, unappealing, lesser, immoral. It doesn't, but you know anyone who was around in the 90s and earlier certainly got that message. It was just the worst thing you could be, the worst insult you could use, and it applied to many people who were not overweight.

It also doesn't mean size 14 or 16 or any other random dress size. Honestly those of us on here are old enough to know that. Dress sizes are not a measure of health or beauty; I know it's nice slipping into a smaller size but I had a health check recently and nobody asked my dress size, they just weighed me (I am a gym goer and have a low level weights routine but no way does my muscle throw off my BMI, so it's accurate enough for me).

Vernacular use….

”I’m a size 16.”

…very common.

You should meet some people.

Yes - for me. I was a size 14-16 and was definitely fat. I’m still podgy at an 8-10 but I’m short.

I was a 16 in December, and yes I was firmly in the BMI overweight category. It was definitely fat not muscle.
I've lost nearly 2 stone and am now a 14, maybe 12 in some shops. Still with a slightly overweight BMI, but I don't look it any more. And I feel much better.

I do. Well educated ones. I judge people based on whether they are well educated, not the size of their bodies.

Depends on the height of the woman, surely? But it’s probably considered overweight for most people.
There’s no denying that we have a national obesity crisis.

I fluctuate between 10 and 12 (depends on clothing brand) and even I feel a bit too large at the moment. I’m 5ft 4.

Well that's a pretty shit metric too. People often have less control over the education they received than over their eating and exercise. Why not judge people on how they treat others?

Good. That makes two of us. But I haven't noticed a correlation between the size of bodies and the use of vernacular English. Also, I think it's probably worth you getting to know some people who are not "well-educated", so that you can see that there are plenty of intelligent, articulate people, of various sizes, whose lack of education never hurt them none, to quote the poet.

Absolutely. But it does rather illustrate that this isn’t true: Humans are not designed to have the amount of fat on them that has become normalised in western societies.

Humans have been a wide range of shapes and sizes since the beginning of time and any study of art history illustrates that.

I’m 5’9 and I’d look over weight at a 16

I don’t think I’d have admitted that if I was you. Not just as it is irrelevant to the thread, but many people have no input into the education they receive, and to be going about judging people on it, is really quite shameful.

And judging people on the size of their bodies isn’t?

People have input into the size of their bodies.

I would be obese at a size 16.

So that makes judging them on it OK?

Yes. Of course. When I was a size 16 I was teetering around a BMI of 30. There is no point pretending about this stuff. I wasn't a lesser person or ugly or worthless or lazy or anything when I was fat, but I was fat!

Im 5 foot 9, when covid began in 2020 I ballooned to a size 16 and was fat. I felt terrible about myself, ended up with social anxiety so went on a diet and lost 8 stone to become a size 8, so I was definitely really overweight.

I don't see why pretending there are no health implications to excess body fat is empowering

Fat/over weight isn't the same as entirely stupid though, is it? This argument pisses me right off. You can look good whatever your size. You can want to be accepted, not be abused in the street, able to get a job etc etc You can still be aware that it isn't great for your health whilst enjoying getting dressed in the morning and feeling good about what you see in the mirror.

Prime example I am. Spent years getting heavier and heavier, lonely, miserable. Size 32/34. Couldn't get a grip on it. Wore black the whole time. Discovered mounjaro. Now wearing a size 22 and have a bright new wardrobe. I feel fucking amazing. I know I'm still fat. I know there are still health problems. But I am allowed to feel good about myself. And you know what else I've learned? I should have been just as proud of myself when size 32. I am very much the same person I was. Just smaller.