Resident doctors synicsl strike again

[uneffingbelievable]

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

Because up to 1 in 3 of the population can manage it?

Surely we expect our doctors to get at least one A*?

Unfortunately not.

https://www.medschools.ac.uk/for-students/applying-to-medical-school/entry-requirements/

The intellectual snobbery post was not about A level grades but the comments about going to either Oxford or Cambridge medical school.

I am not sure that they would be so fed up if the working conditions were better - so many tired doctors on the wards which is bad for patient care apart from anything else. It is a punishing schedule.

Having said that the working conditions have improved. When my late OH was a "house doctor" he was on his knees - he barely saw me or our child. It made him ill. He retired from the NHS at 42 as he had nothing left to give - a loss to the profession and a massive financial drop for us - we had to sell our home. And his health never recovered.

The argument then was that they needed to work these hours in order to clock up the experience and knowledge to be good doctors, but I really think it was because the consultants then thought that they had had to go through it so why should anyone else get "let off"?

There has to be a way of organizing sufficient recruitment so that resident doctors do not have to work insane hours. It erodes their enthusiasm and is bad for everyone.

No they can't. Utter rubbish. 33% of students Do not get 3 As. Not in the UK anyway. 9% of candidates get an A or above in A level Chemistry.

Quick google and its so easy to learn the facts

It's because the process includes UCAT and interviews (often during mocks). Being a (good) doctor is not all about grades.

Doctors strike on pay as that is all they can strike on. They really want the job and conditions to change but they can not strike on that basis.

I said "up to". It depends on where you live. The maximum figure for an English county council in 2025 was 34.7%. In London boroughs 20% is common. This is not a high bar.

And as you well know the bar is not fixed at 3As.

Edit: is not

2/4 of our current trainees pursuing CESR are UKMGs!

I have never given any indication of when I trained you and mums have made so many assumptions over the numeorus threads about people, judgemental comments and insults fly every time some one gives you a hard fact that does not fit your narrative.
Apparently consultants currently never had to pay fees / have loans according to you and mums, which have been around since the 1990s - loans and 1998 for fees. That is 28 yrs for these fee paying doctors to become consultants !!

I was on a training programme but also did trust jobs as was advised i needed more experience before progressing - yours and mums ignorance of when trainign programmes started, loans, fees, training of residents, exams, hours and when a doctor is actually qualified is breathtaking! Mine was not a conventional route to a consultant job and I faced unemployment as did my peers at times and had to move and adapt. I personally think it has made me more resilient as a doctor.

And who ever said I gained a CCT via training programme!
OR that I am British
Or that I trained in this country!

Tbh, I hope you aren't British if that's the standard of your writing. And if you didn't train here, what makes you such an expert upon the residents' working conditions?

This is nuts. AAA is a low bar because it is possible to get 3 A stars. And I want my doctor to be capable of getting v v hard A levels like maths.

Yes mummyneedswine, it is tiring. So are the hours demanded by investmenr banks or magic circle law firms. But she is young she will cope and TBH those working hours made caring for a newborn feel like a holiday, so there is that.

But it was lower my offer was BBB very standard in the '90s. Now AAA with the A* grade having introduced. Isn't that the same ?

A Level Maths is not v v hard by any stretch of the imagination. Grade A/A star is routinely required for admission to many strong degree programmes up and down the country.

Medical School admissions requirements are generally in line with admissions requirements at other Schools in their universities.

I am not a consultant but an academic and a former Russell Group admissions tutor in a STEM subject adjacent to maths. I am very familiar with the maths A level and how much easier it is now than it was in the 1980s.

neverdropyourmooncup - training as in a UK medical school?
I think you will find if you read through, I said I had worked in jobs from Scunthorpe to the South Coast - as far as I am aware Scunthorpe is in the UK. So yes I understand resident jobs in this country - admittedly they were called junior doctor roles but the jobs have not changed that much.

As to my spelling which I know can be appalling - I am assuming you have heard of dyslexia - something a significant number of the medical world have and I was diagnosed with whilst a junior doctor. I am someone who would have benefitted from the brilliant work that mumsneedswine does to help people get into medical school, would have made my path easier in many ways.

We do value our residents and medical students but as in all walks of life, there is a spectrum of intelligence and ability in the medical profession and after a few years as a consultant you can post this very quickly and it would not be untruthful to say that the high flyers 75% of the time that come into my sphere of the profession come consistently from 5 universities.

Shame on you mooncup for judging without the facts and denigrating someone with a disability.

mischance - the current crop of consultants are the ones who campaigned for a reduction in the hours from the ridiculous norm of an everage of 80 hrs per week and I think you will find that none of them would advocate a return to those days but a balance does need to be struck.

At the moment I have to timetable our residents for a minimum of
a half day off Mon-Fri per week
a half day of admin
a half day of research
they need to do nights
clinics, interventional sessions etc

I know my current crop would be happy if they did not have to do nights or weekends and argue vociferously that this is what makes them unhappy - we discuss alot. The issue here is medicine is a 24/7/365 job - people do not get ill 9-5. How you deal with things at night with less hospital resource is a skill that has to be learned.

We have had FY2s come to us, having completed FY1 and never done a night shift - many have a very difficult time suddenly doing weekends and nights even with an SPR/Consultant in the hospital with them. We do them no service by avoiding the less palatable parts of delivering healthcare.

Having said that there is an almost beautiful peace in a hospital if you are walking down a corridor at 0200 - it is such a contrast to the day.

As I am on call for my sins this weekend - I will go off and do my ward round, teach my residents after buying them breakfast - usual weekend tradition and one I was brought up with in my training.

I hate weekends working but I signed up for this and that is the job!

Not all consultants are the heartless uncaring wankers that mums and purple would have you believe and I know all of my colleagues do the same!

Again, please quote where I have said any of this. One consultant on here, just one, seems to hate students and residents.

I really wish people would read more carefully and not throw accusations around as it demeans any points made.

When did you last take maths A level ? The new version has quite a lot that used to be degree level.

Thank you for this. It's strange how AAA is not seen as good but offers used to be lower grades due to the difference in exams.

Students who get into medicine need good GCSEs, very good UCAT, the ability to succeed at interviews (designed to weed out purely academic, arrogant and non people students) and get good A levels. They also then need to pass 5 years of rigorous exams, the MLA and PSA before becoming a doctor. I think they prove their worth by the time they qualify.

Maybe if it worries you ask for their A level results before they treat you. Majority will have A stars anyway. Oh and getting an A star in a class of 5 is so much easier than getting an A in a class of 32 (my current year 13). Guess who Unis think is 'brighter'.

42.2% of maths A level candidates aged 18 got A or A start in maths last year. It’s hardly the most challenging subject for a sizeable minority. It is also a very popular subject but getting an A in maths doesn’t tell you much about whether someone will be a great doctor!

It’s just my opinion, but I do feel many people are no longer supportive of their ongoing action. Starmer and Streeting have certainly made it clear they will not play the game anymore. Where will intend, who knows, because, be honest, if Labour are refusing to dance to their tune,they have absolutely no hope of getting anywhere with any of the other parties

Indeed. The consultants from my OH's experience have gone and a new tranche with better attitudes are there.
There is a balance to be struck between on the one hand working sufficient hours to gain knowledge/experience and provide the medical cover required, and on the other avoiding burnout and zombie doctors in charge of life critical decisions.
I do not think we are anywhere near achieving that aim yet in spite of the welcome hard-fought-for introduction of humanitarian tweaks to work patterns.
I think it is central to the dissatisfaction.
But I am against the strike. Not something my OH would ever have got involved in.
I am interested in how other countries manage this. Does anyone have experience or knowledge about this?