Resident doctors synicsl strike again

[uneffingbelievable]

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

This is a thread about doctors and they are professionals so of course the parallel is professionals in the private sector. This is painful.

Where do you see the consultants get all the monies?
You get paid for your time, experience, management, expertise, responsibiility which does not end when you go home.

Not sure if you have seen the consultant pay scale but the difference between an ST8 and a consultant is not huge anymore. ST8 on 44 hrs per week grossing 95k+, versus year 0 consultant 109K for 40 hrs per week they stay on that pay scale for 3 yrs. then progress to 119K for 4 yrs, then 131K for 6 yrs, then 145K till they retire.
Bearing in mind most consultants are in post for nearly 30 yrs the current contract means after 14 yrs no more increases in pay.

The last pay round loaded the early years consultants , screwed the current consultant with about 7 yrs experience and royally screwed the ones who had been in post for more than 14 yrs.
There is no reward for experience and expertise in the current set up and no I do not support consultants going on strike.

AS to 0.8 of a WTE - everyone in the NHS has the right to flexible working and part time working so they deliver 80% of a full timer and get paid the proprotionate amount. What is wrong with that?

Why shouldn`t a consultant do the school run a few days per week. You do not know what their hours are from seeing them on the school run or what they do in unsocial hours.
yet another ill informed comment about what consultants do.

To give you a flavour - I do Mon/ Wed 0730 - 1900 on site,
Tuesday 0730 - 21-2200 on site and then on call from home usually called for advice 3-4 times.
Thursday - I do school drop off 0830 - 1730
Friday 0830 - 1700ish,
1:6 weekends 0730 -2100 on site and on call from home over night
Saturday -0730 - 2100 on site then on call from home over night
Sunday - 0730 - 1700 on site then oncall over night.
If a colleague is away - I cover there on call aswell.

Must have missed something about me not doing any work I think you will find that works out as an average of 60 hr per week

I cover 4 sites, liase with different Trusts who have different rules on everything and am still asked to do more. Could i do an extra clinic, how about running a clinic on a Saturdya all day!!

Those who do private practice - do it on top of this type of working week in what little spare time they ahve. Their choice what they do in their down time - your mployer does not own what you do in your non work time.

@HugoElephant Are you always so rude? You introduced the notion that doctors have to stick with the nhs as public sector employees which of course they don’t. You think other professionals, that you don’t name, can get £110,000 like a consultant by moving jobs a few times. That’s more than a primary head, more than most HR professionals and more than most architects. These are all professionals but you seem to suggest your career is the one that we should measure against. Not anyone else. I don’t understand your logic. Doctors are better paid than the majority in any walk of life. Others can earn more but it’s not a given a grad doctor could actually compete with them. Skills are different. You only have to look at what degree has the best financial return overall, and its doctors. This was even true before the Labour government's generosity. I take issue with the belief other professionals (? who?) can just walk into £140,000 jobs after, say, 15 years post grad.

30 years as a consultant is suggesting they become a consultant at 30. Is that the case? £110,000 at 30 seems very good to me.

This is batshit. You have been repeatedly rude, shouty and disingenuous in every post. I'm not wasting any more time responding to you. Your obvious jealousy is not my issue.

30 yrs as a consultant equates to people becoming a consultant at 37 with retirement now 67.
Believe me I did not walk into a 140k after 15+ yrs of training, did dirty low class non training jobs that mums and purple think are inferior, did research and moved countries twice to learn new skills and worked in 12 hospitals from Scunthorpe to the south coast, time in OZ and Switzerland - it was circa 85K, 4 degrees, a membership or 2 and 15 yrs of doing 1;3 to 1;5 24 hr on call rotas! That means 80-120 hrs per week in non medical terms.

It was hard work like a lot of jobs and most of it I enjoyed - no real complaints but the thought I walked into a cushy consultant job is laughable and insulting

Again, please quote where I have talked about 'lesser' jobs ??? My DD would have loved the opportunity to have done a few years as a JCF but couldn't turn down training as was so hard to get. And so few JCF roles. She would have loved to locum for a bit but again no jobs. Many friends were unemployed last year - not sure doctors used to have to deal with that ?

She also worked as an HCA (including on Covid ICU) and knows the value of every person in a hospital. Not sure where this comment has come from ?

Foolish stance.

They weren't new jobs anyway. Just LED ones being made into training posts for 1 year. Blackmail is not a good negotiation technique in HR !

@mumsneedwine does threatening long strikes for inflation busting pay rises not count as blackmail? Or is it only when the government does it?

@Everanewbie it's called a legal right to strike, a basic employment law in this country. It's how woman got equal pay (thanks Ford workers), maternity leave, paid holidays. Not a new phenomenon.

Never heard of a deal where the terms are contingent on giving up your employment rights. But as people seem to hate doctors I expect they think they shouldn't even be paid or get holiday.

They are not asking for a pay rise. They are asking for pay restoration. Because during the pandemic their pay went down by over 30% in real terms. They'd just like it to go back.

And yes, so did other jobs. They too can strike if they want to. Or find another employer.

@mumsneedwine I think they are attempting to say that I look down on Trust grade jobs. Another example of twisting people's posts to suit agenda.

I have merely pointed out that Trust grade doctors do not have the same training opportunities as doctors on a formal training programme.

Therefore my DS as a surgical trainee needed to apply for higher surgical training after ST2 to become a consultant surgeon.

There may be other ways of becoming a consultant surgeon without being on a formal training programme but it is a difficult, less travelled road.

@PurpleFairyLights not sure how that's implying 'inferior'. Weird.

Thought this was pertinent. It's like they want an NHS without doctors.

You think your description of "dirty, low class non-training jobs" is appropriate? That is a perfect example of someone thinking those jobs were inferior and is a very disrespectful.

In comparison I said Trust grade doctors do not have the same training opportunities as doctors on a formal training programme.

It is very strange especially with the quote from @uneffingbelievable about " dirty low class non-training" jobs. Who describes a job like that? Not appropriate.

I'm married to a doctor. I do not hate them. I don't like the arrogance of the BMA. They even feel the need to wade in on the middle east conflict for goodness sakes, with 6th form common room level statements. I don't think there is an occupation anywhere in the UK that is paid what they were in 2008 in real terms. The BMA seem to think that inflation only affects them.

Resident Doctors would be better served campaigning on conditions; about how they're posted anywhere, destroying family relationships in the process, about how they need to do so much ass kissing for opportunities in an archaic hierarchical environment that the rest of civilised society left behind years ago.

But they've just had 30-odd percent. That's the stuff of dreams for the rest of the population.

You're not allowed to strike over conditions anymore.

I'd be surprised if that is accurate.

Most professions earn comparative to 2010. And you're going to be surprised then.

Can only strike @Everanewbie if changes are being made by employer to your conditions. They could try and use the unsafe working but that's more about being unsafe for themselves, not the patients. You can't just call a strike if don't like things as they are. Which I agree are awful.

No they did not.

It was (on average) 22% over 2 years, still some 20% behind where they were in 2008.

I was taught in the most selective medical school in the country. I was comfortably in the top decile of my year and I didn't get my consultant post until I was 39; most of my peers went into general practice whether that was what they wanted or not. In the course of my training I passed my Royal College exams at the first sitting, did an MD, 1 in 3s (1 in 4s if I was lucky), and moved seven times, between Bristol and Edinburgh. In the middle of my career I got the first jobs that I applied for, but I applied for 12 jobs before I got onto an SHO rotation, and I applied for 12 consultant posts before I got the one I wanted.

Entry to medical school is approximately ten times less competitive now than it was then; and most courses are much less challenging because student satisfaction surveys became a thing, and traditional preclinical years were hard work and entrants now lack the necessary basic sciences that they require. Graduates do not lack confidence (although in fact their confidence is demonstrably inversely proportional to their competence) and they are given explicit information about how to achieve career progression.

But they complain about training jobs being difficult to get, when most don't apply for them. When they do apply, most of the unsuccessful ones are simply not appointable. They complain about the hours, the pay, having too much responsibility (despite on-site registrar cover), having to do research, having to move to another part of the country.

As a simple first step to improving the situation, I would impress on them that being "awesome" is not enough.

Lovely stealth boast.

30% of specialty training posts went to IMGs in 2025 with a points system that favoured IMGs.

If you went to medical school in the UK I suspect you did not encounter that problem...

Thank goodness we now have UKMG prioritisation.

And purple the biggest denigrator of trust grade jobs thinks they are inferior and people get worse training - which is absolutely not true and insulting to those of us who do deliver training. Coling oyur heels not progressing oyu training I think was one of your opinions on another thread. Long established posts stating these jobs are inferior - no oyu did not strictly use the words but both you and mums are firmly of the opinion that a trust grade job was inferior and of little value to a junior doctor when you patently have no clue on what the roles are and how the people are treated.
Having done a number I would say my experience is more than yours. As we have 10 in our department I know they get treated the same get the same training opportunities as the numbered trainees - so would say past, and present knowledge first hand rather than hearsay.

And yes I moved country to get a job because there were none - so nothing new on the facing unemployment. When i finished my SPR training there were no jobs so I did some more trianing in another inferior trust grade job, moved country and then returned .

What is new

What on earth is the 'most selective medical school' ? Currently this would be Keele as has most UK applicants per place, easiest Oxford as least UK applicants per place.

It was shit for me so should also be shit for you is a strange attitude these days. Most people want to make things better. Why wouldn't you want things to improve - constant rotations don't seem necessary for PAs who are on ST4 rotas, so why is it for doctors ?

And no idea who thinks they are awesome- just tired and over worked. Has anyone claimed to be awesome ???