Resident doctors synicsl strike again

[uneffingbelievable]

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

PS not sure there is a resident doctor on here, 'banging in about it'. Just older people with differing views.

The GMC doesn't decide who can be a consultant, that is the job of an Advisory Appointments Committee. There is a separate statute for that. As far as I can see it will be business as usual.

I was not talking about Forces doctors.

The paid accommodation is exceedingly basic. Pension is a % of pay. Doctors who make a full career on the NHS will do as well or better.

Yes, we have had self identified doctors in training on this thread.

Every foundation school gets feedback every year from every job, the gmc survey all go back to the Trusts and changes get made until the next year, when the changes are usually now found to be not wanted and the jobs change again.

Mums - good that your daughter did nights as it should be but many jobs removed nights from the rotas because that was what was asked of them byt the resident doctors.

6 weeks notice for annual leave not 6 months

Seriously mums - Soldiers get free accommodation. And an amazing pension.

Go and shake your brain - because I think you might find being a soldier is slightly more dangerous than being an F1 doctor.Slightly more soldiers have dies in the execution of their jobs in the last 10 yrs than doctors

That you can even consider the two as in any way comparable is so deeply offensive, no they did not train and pass exams for years but they were prepared to stand up and die for their job the courage at whatever age and whatever level has to be acknowledged and rewarded at some point.

Bit like ladybird not getting that US residents got paid roughly the same as UK resident but for doing double the average hours which meant the US residents were actually on a crap deal.

…Its a bit like uneffingbelievable spending her/ his whole weekend on mumsnet but not managing to making any coherent arguments… 😊

You keep getting yourself in a muddle 😆

’Ladybird’ has never made any such comment about hours in US vs hours in UK thank you very much. We only discussed money.

You commented that US equivalent junior salaries were $45-$60k and said that this was less than UK resident doctors. In that post you made zero mention of hours.

I corrected you as $60,000 USD is £45,000 GBP and is very much an average/ normal resident doctors salary in UK. (Now it appears you’ve changed your tune and you are acknowledging that’s ’roughly the same’)

Later - in one of your many other posts - you mentioned the hours you think US drs work vs the hours you think UK drs work. I never once discussed that with you. 😘

There are many considerations, beyond responsibility and risk that would have to be taken into consideration for pay. One of
the biggest differences between soldiers and doctors would be market forces. Soldiers usually have to be citizens of the country so cannot go abroad for higher wages or even to gain wider experience. The fact of the matter is that doctors in most developed countries earn far more and have better conditions than in the UK and we have a big flow of talent going abroad and also giving up medicine altogether.

Then there are perks - soldiers usually/often have the option of cheap housing. No idea if doctors receive anything - maybe a discount in the canteen?

And perhaps the most obvious one is training - the absolute youngest age a doctor can earn a wage is 23 due to all the years of studying. I’m guessing a school leaver can complete their soldier training in a few weeks or months and so can start earning at 16. And a commissioned officer - a year? So 19?

Many jobs come with huge responsibility. Junior doctors knew they would be responsible for people's lives and they knew what the pay structure was.

If they believed the money wasn't enough for the amount of responsibility then they shouldn't have applied to do medicine.

There are many jobs where mistakes can lead to death. Look at the construction industry. Responsibility comes in many jobs. In some jobs, you make a mistake and you die!

The lack of knowledge from many ( not you) about how little PAs are trained, and how much they earn is scary. They are often on 70k +, can’t order mris, or cts can’t prescribe or diagnose
literally whats the point of them

Not a reasonable comparison, very few SAS members are graduates.
A better comparison is officer pay, eg a sub lieutenant is a year after graduation, earns 41.5 k, minimal duties and if not on deployment a 9-5 would be considered an exceptionally long day.

Add the point that if they were 'allowed' to organise imaging and prescribe, they lack the knowledge and training to know what to do.

Scan everyone's everything would be the result. Preventing people who actually need the imaging from getting it in a timely manner.

Don't even want to imagine prescribing.

But this is what the NHS long term plan is- non doctors delivering 'healthcare' with a few nominal doctors to allegedly 'supervise' which simply can't be done adequately or safely.

Essentially the NHS will be delivering 'healthcare' to the general public while medicine is practised privately by those who actually trained in medicine.

They have to decide at about 16, so they can do preparatory work placements/volunteering, prepare for entrance exams etc.

A lot can change in 7 years.

WTH?

As someone with one of the intensive PhDs, I think this is one of the most arrogant things I have read on MumsNet. I may be a world expert in my specialism, but SAS have numerous skills I cannot begin to fathom. I know that they also have numerous skills that doctors cannot begin to fathom.

Failing to appreciate that educate comes in many forms is a hallmark of ignorance.

Yes, stuff can change over 7 years. But they always knew they'd be shouldering a lot of responsibility, would sometimes need to make life/death decisions and 'roughly' what the pay would equate to.

They still chose to do medicine.

Of course education comes in many forms but on this thread we were comparing other graduate incomes, and the SAS is not comparable in that respect, how utterly silly to think I denigrating their excellent work.
if we are moving to comparing non graduate incomes ( totally off the topic of the thread ) then why do train drivers, tube drivers, refuse operators all earn far far more than junior medics. It says a lot about you that you are trying to twist things and suggest I am saying only a degree is ok.

SAS officers will be graduates. Plus they sign on knowing they are genuinely risking their lives every day and could be killed at any moment. Weeks of laying in a ditch, in 45 degree heat or hip deep in jungle slime and leeches, risking capture & torture etc. And still they do all this knowing they will never get any public acclaim or praise.

A damn site more self sacrificing and impressive than being a doctor.

How dare you compare doctors to accountants and engineers. You obviously have no idea of the years of hard medical training, followed by relentless hard brain work - not to mention the massive difference in hours worked per week. You think doctors work a mere 40 hours for their 38 grand?

Shame on you.

Because it's how the government choose to fund these... If we had a private market for both doctors would get paid more and tfl would probably pay less

The second lieutenant has far slower pay progression and the uplift for 24/7 duties is less than 15%.

*Minimal duties^?

This is what their contract says.

If it is not being honoured, that is a separate issue and one the British public would respect. Focus on that instead of a pay uplift in excess of others’ pay rises.

The medical training does involve a lot of hard graft, but the intellectual effort is less than that undertaken by the nation’s leading young scientists. Medics do more tasks and some are brilliant, but you can be a successful doctor with less brain power than it takes to be a successful scientist, and the younger members of the latter class are suffering worse.

I assure you hours worked are comparable.

The standard subsidised housing for single members if the military is a single room.

How many people on £38,800 - 90,000+ would choose to live in a single room?

Some perk

I don’t want irresponsible people driving trains! Or flying aircraft for that matter. Or designing high rise buildings where years of training is imperative! It’s rather important they stand up! All of these people deserve decent incomes but Engineers in particular will do the same years as a Doctor in terms of training and specialisms. @KWaldron You are entirely ignorant about engineering I’m afraid. For the highest levels, they are comparable to doctors and sometimes beyond many doctors!