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Resident doctors synicsl strike again

739 replies

uneffingbelievable · 25/03/2026 20:22

The resident doctors have once again announced a 6 day strike to co incide with a bank holiday weekend.

Whilst I support fair pay and working conditions I have lost all sympathy with them. This is not poverty when you are being paid as a whole package 40-95000 gross on a 44 hr week depending on your seniority.

The arguments about lack of jobs did not stack up with more jobs going to home graduates than IMGS despite the hysteria and a huge number of home graduates not even bothering to apply.

They are coming across as tone deaf and entitled or am I missing something.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
poetryandwine · 28/03/2026 23:06

Edit: omit ‘the data’ from the first line in my post of 23.03

JaffavsCookie · 28/03/2026 23:07

I know have been recognised @poetryandwine because in both of the cases I was told by the person who had recognised me!
The last time it was someone at work, who I had never discussed any internet activity with at all, and they said out of the blue “oh you are - insert username- on mumsnet, I was following your post on ….”

poetryandwine · 28/03/2026 23:11

JaffavsCookie · 28/03/2026 23:07

I know have been recognised @poetryandwine because in both of the cases I was told by the person who had recognised me!
The last time it was someone at work, who I had never discussed any internet activity with at all, and they said out of the blue “oh you are - insert username- on mumsnet, I was following your post on ….”

Interesting.

You could have held your nerve and denied it.

Perhaps you did post something very revealing. Bland descriptions of your children’s jobs and salaries (not that I am interested, but apparently this is relevant for a point you made earlier) seem unlikely to fall into that category.

JaffavsCookie · 28/03/2026 23:41

I did hold my nerve and denied, but I am pretty sure they didn’t believe me.
In this instance I am absolutely sure that descriptions of my kids jobs (obviously 1 in isolation isn’t an issue, ie it is clear I have a son who is a junior medic from this thread) but certainly if one was to triangulate the jobs of the others then I would be very recognisable to others, and I am well aware of several people who I know use mumsnet, not that i ever say i do.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 03:26

PintsOfBeer · 28/03/2026 23:06

Where do they want this money to come from? I remember having a Twitter argument once (albeit with NHS nurses) who said they wanted to get paid more. I said something around the lines of having more private insurance involvement and having a social insurance model. Some competition and free markets would mean they would get paid more. They had a huff and puff about "privatisation" and said they weren't greedy. But then I said they wanted to get paid more and expected us to foot the extra bill.

Non doctors, such as PAs, ACPs, ANPs earn more than doctors for doing less of a responsible job (they shouldn't be doing your C section or diagnosing your cancer). On any bank holiday the lowest paid person in any hospital is the F1. Porters and cleaners earn more.
The money could come from having less non doctors. Or paying their assistants less than the doctors themselves.

Scotiasdarling · 29/03/2026 07:06

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 03:26

Non doctors, such as PAs, ACPs, ANPs earn more than doctors for doing less of a responsible job (they shouldn't be doing your C section or diagnosing your cancer). On any bank holiday the lowest paid person in any hospital is the F1. Porters and cleaners earn more.
The money could come from having less non doctors. Or paying their assistants less than the doctors themselves.

Don't be silly. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, we all know hospital cleaners don't earn £45000 a year.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 08:22

Scotiasdarling · 29/03/2026 07:06

Don't be silly. It doesn't matter how many times you say it, we all know hospital cleaners don't earn £45000 a year.

Nor do F1s. Please learn to read and comprehend better.

OhDear111 · 29/03/2026 08:42

@mumsneedwine Please read and understand the overtime payments now available and the huge contributions we make to pensions. These are a fantastic overall package not enjoyed by others. You pick and choose info to suit your “work” position as supporting and advising dc who want a medical career and your DD. The truth is somewhat different. If it’s so bad, why do you bother? Of course it’s well paid or dc would be doing something else. A glittering career as a cleaner maybe?

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 08:50

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 03:26

Non doctors, such as PAs, ACPs, ANPs earn more than doctors for doing less of a responsible job (they shouldn't be doing your C section or diagnosing your cancer). On any bank holiday the lowest paid person in any hospital is the F1. Porters and cleaners earn more.
The money could come from having less non doctors. Or paying their assistants less than the doctors themselves.

F1s are on a base salary of £38K+. In addition they get overtime and 37% extra for unsociable hours like everyone else on the resident doctor contract. All data suggest that many do earn in the region of £45K.

You can’t have it both ways: either they are overworked and being paid for it, or they aren’t so overworked. If the strikes are truly about violations of contract, which has not been suggested, a pay rise is not the answer anyway.

BTW F1s are not ‘doing your C-section or diagnosing your cancer’ either.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 08:59

OhDear111 · 29/03/2026 08:42

@mumsneedwine Please read and understand the overtime payments now available and the huge contributions we make to pensions. These are a fantastic overall package not enjoyed by others. You pick and choose info to suit your “work” position as supporting and advising dc who want a medical career and your DD. The truth is somewhat different. If it’s so bad, why do you bother? Of course it’s well paid or dc would be doing something else. A glittering career as a cleaner maybe?

Doctors are tax payers too. And make huge contributions to their own pensions. Overtime ? No, contracted rota hours they have to work and are paid basic time for, unless after 9pm when they get a (smaller than the rest of NHS) night allowance.
Being paid for a 72 hour week that is not negotiable but demanded, being made to move every 6-12 months with no say in the location - who is being selective.
But then you seem to have a grudge against doctors and believe lawyers are all just so amazing, so hopefully they'll be able to treat you when you are sick.

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:00

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 08:50

F1s are on a base salary of £38K+. In addition they get overtime and 37% extra for unsociable hours like everyone else on the resident doctor contract. All data suggest that many do earn in the region of £45K.

You can’t have it both ways: either they are overworked and being paid for it, or they aren’t so overworked. If the strikes are truly about violations of contract, which has not been suggested, a pay rise is not the answer anyway.

BTW F1s are not ‘doing your C-section or diagnosing your cancer’ either.

But many F1s don't get 'overtime' or do nights as they are given placeholders roles which only give contracted basic hours. Surely you know this as a doctor ??

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:02

And they earn £45k as they do 70 hour weeks, nights and long days. It's not for doing 9-5. They'll often be the first doctor you'll see at night if having a heart attack.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 29/03/2026 09:22

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 08:59

Doctors are tax payers too. And make huge contributions to their own pensions. Overtime ? No, contracted rota hours they have to work and are paid basic time for, unless after 9pm when they get a (smaller than the rest of NHS) night allowance.
Being paid for a 72 hour week that is not negotiable but demanded, being made to move every 6-12 months with no say in the location - who is being selective.
But then you seem to have a grudge against doctors and believe lawyers are all just so amazing, so hopefully they'll be able to treat you when you are sick.

Your last sentence just ruins all your other arguments. Using the threat of health to get more cash out of taxpayers is why people are turning against the BMA and looking at doctors differently. No longer simply people with a vocation to help others.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:24

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:02

And they earn £45k as they do 70 hour weeks, nights and long days. It's not for doing 9-5. They'll often be the first doctor you'll see at night if having a heart attack.

So no FY1s won't be doing c-sections, however in A&E the first doctor you see will nearly almost always be a FY2/FY1 so may well be the one to identify something amiss eg: appendicitis, heart attacks, strokes, sepsis and yes sometimes cancer so absolutely saving lives. I don't think circa 50K is a lot really especially as much of their working week is outside 9-5 Monday-Friday.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:26

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:24

So no FY1s won't be doing c-sections, however in A&E the first doctor you see will nearly almost always be a FY2/FY1 so may well be the one to identify something amiss eg: appendicitis, heart attacks, strokes, sepsis and yes sometimes cancer so absolutely saving lives. I don't think circa 50K is a lot really especially as much of their working week is outside 9-5 Monday-Friday.

Sorry meant to quote previous poster mummyneedswine is absolutely right.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:00

But many F1s don't get 'overtime' or do nights as they are given placeholders roles which only give contracted basic hours. Surely you know this as a doctor ??

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:46

mumsneedwine · 29/03/2026 09:02

And they earn £45k as they do 70 hour weeks, nights and long days. It's not for doing 9-5. They'll often be the first doctor you'll see at night if having a heart attack.

Any F1 working 70 hr weeks should berolling in £££ from the overtime and unsociable hours pay.

If this happens for weeks on end, it violates the EWTD, a serious breach. If contracts aren’t being honoured, the public will sympathise and get behind that. But don’t focus your demands on more money, then.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:47

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

I think porters get 2/3 unsocial hours uplift.- I might be wrong.

Minnie798 · 29/03/2026 10:18

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 09:41

@mumsneedwine and others who repeat it:

Will someone please break down the hospital porter salary claim for me? I just don’t see it, so correct my data:

The NHS website informs me that hospital porters are on Grade 2 and Grade 3. The latter are experienced, with salaries of £30K reserved for Team Leaders and such. It is wrong to assume all porters are on this salary, but we can generously assume a salary of £28K on average for a 37.5 hr week. That’s a bit higher than what published data says.

They work 45 weeks/year, for a total of 1687.5 hrs, giving an hourly rate of £16.59.

*The contract for resident doctors since 2016 states that they for an average 40 hour week and that overtime must be paid.

Since late 2025 overtime can be submitted directly to HR to minimise tensions and conflicts of interest.

So we must assume a 40 hr average week and take up separately the question of whether the contract is being honoured. *

Assume an F1 doctor is on a 40 hour week. They work the same 45 weeks. So, an extra 2.5 hours/week x 45 weeks, a total of 1800 hours. Without assuming any enhancements for unsociable hours, the hourly pay rate is
£38,831/1800 = £21.57.

Please explain how 16.59 > 21.57?

If we assume a 44 hour work week, which has been claimed on this thread but which I cannot find in writing, the unenhanced F1 pay still wins.

I think that whoever began publicising this appalling piece of false data may have used the top porter salary in a hospital. That’s likely to be a very responsible supervisory position of a higher band involving supervision of hundreds of people. Of course that person makes more.

For the allegedly egalitarian BMJ to appeal to people’s snobbishness on this count without doing basic arithmetic was shocking.

And no, @mumsneedwine , never once have I claimed to be a medical doctor. I would not consider this particularly desirable. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else.

Most porters are on £12. 51 per hour basic rate ( will increase slightly in April). Enhanced rate for bank holidays/ nights/ weekends as per agenda for change. Medical staff do not want to be on agenda for change terms and conditions, I believe that has been rejected as a proposal previously.
If there has been a comparison made with a porters wage, it must have been for those who are in a managerial role, with numerous leadership responsibilities. That is what said 'porters' are being paid a reasonable wage for, not to move equipment around and do the basics of hospital work. Why are the BMA comparing junior drs wages to those in management.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:32

Minnie798 · 25/03/2026 22:00

I think a package where university fees are paid for, in exchange for an agreed period of nhs service and a commitment to more training posts would serve the medical profession better.
Another 28% pay rise will not address the biggest concern ( lack of training posts). It will probably exacerbate the problem - nhs trusts will likely leave training posts unfilled, to address the deficit the pay rises will create in the staffing budget.

I like your idea, except I would make the tuition support retroactive.

We should really overhaul the tuition loan system and the whole HE sector. Within that there is room to acknowledge the extra tuition burdens of medical doctors.

Within the present system I would be happy to halt interest payments during F1 and F2, and start some type of loan forgiveness during the Core/Specialty Training years and beyond, commensurate with NHS service.

Training posts would need to exist, and Foundation doctors would need to apply for them. No special breaks during a hiatus as the 2024 GMC report says the large majority of Foundation doctors now take. That’s not a criticism, but the taxpayer should not be funding such breaks.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:35

Minnie798 · 29/03/2026 10:18

Most porters are on £12. 51 per hour basic rate ( will increase slightly in April). Enhanced rate for bank holidays/ nights/ weekends as per agenda for change. Medical staff do not want to be on agenda for change terms and conditions, I believe that has been rejected as a proposal previously.
If there has been a comparison made with a porters wage, it must have been for those who are in a managerial role, with numerous leadership responsibilities. That is what said 'porters' are being paid a reasonable wage for, not to move equipment around and do the basics of hospital work. Why are the BMA comparing junior drs wages to those in management.

Edited

Thank you.

The comparison was very well publicised, particularly on previous MN threads. It was supposed to make us indignant for the poor F1s. I found it odious in the abstract and now it appears to be wrong.

HelenaWaiting · 29/03/2026 10:38

NoSoupForU · 25/03/2026 21:22

I'm an engineer and earn significantly more than that salary range. The starting salary is broadly similar to my starting salary 20 or so years ago.

Resident doctors do have experience. They don't enter their residency until they've qualified and they can't qualify without hands on experience. They then also have at least a couple years foundation experience.

You're mistaken. In the UK "resident doctors" includes foundation doctors in mandatory training. So not a lot of experience.

WalkDontWalk · 29/03/2026 10:45

UniquePinkSwan · 26/03/2026 08:59

Why is it always the American system that gets mentioned? There are far better systems out there we could go to. It’s needed. The NHS is not fit for purpose and I’m sick of the cult status surrounding it

You should get a medicine for that.

poetryandwine · 29/03/2026 10:51

Neurodiversitydoctor · 29/03/2026 09:52

Whenever a porter is on an unsocial hours wage, so too will be the rostered F1. The F1’s hourly wage, topped up by 37%, will beat the much lower porters’s wage topped up by 67%.

Oh, wait. The unsocial hours for porters start and end one hour earlier than those for resident doctors. So from 8-9 pm experienced porters may - gasp, horror! - earn approximately as much as F1s. But then from 6-7 am the pay gap is very large in favour of the F1s.

Delving into the details is not helpful, because the comparison is misconceived.