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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think people who say women's football & tennis isn't as skilled as men's because the men (or even untrained boys) would beat them are missing the point?

161 replies

Carla786 · 24/03/2026 06:49

I've been down a rabbit hole about the 1971 Mexico Women's World Cup, and it's got me interested in women's football now. I've always been interested in tennis. Anyway, it's struck me, reading MN threads, that a lot of posts seem to miss the point about physical strength differences between men and women.
Men obviously are able to kick/hit balls etc with more power, because of higher testosterone. It's incoherent to claim this makes women players 'less good'. Sports are generally an area where it doesn't make sense to compare women to men : the women's game should be judged on its own terms.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 09:42

gannett · 26/03/2026 08:13

This is sounding dangerously close to the Victorian argument that women shouldn't play sport at all because of their delicate constitutions.

The progress of sports science means that all athletes, male and female, can do things now that would have been a higher risk of injury 50 years ago. Training, technique and equipment all mitigate that.

I agree that female-centred sports science has a long way to go - the impact of the menstrual cycle and the frequency of ACL injuries are the most obvious under-studied areas. But it's simply not true that female tennis players are at a greater risk of injury than male ones, and the "shorter limbs => more injuries" theory doesn't hold up at all in tennis.

FWIW absolutely no one in tennis thinks that women wouldn't be able to handle five sets physically. If they had to play best of 5, they would adapt their training accordingly. Some women frequently play three-setters that rival five-setters in length (don't forget that most women get fewer "free points" off their serves so have to expend more effort in more rallies).

Whether women play best of 5 in the future, or whether best of 5 will be eradicated for the men, is something that will be decided by TV studios, and the latter is far more likely at this point.

I once got to play a five-set match, thoroughly enjoyed it. Would play that format more but committing to that length of time, and having that sort of indefinite access to courts, is rare!

Perhaps you should read the reviews that I posted after this one you have replied to, and let me know why you think female tennis players have more injuries? I would be open to hearing your reasons why, or do you dismiss the evidence?

It is not ‘Victorian’ to understand the impacts on female athletes bodies of performing at elite level over time. It is also not ‘Victorian’ to understand that men and women have physical differences and yet we play on the same sized court.

The progress of sports science means that all athletes, male and female, can do things now that would have been a higher risk of injury 50 years ago. Training, technique and equipment all mitigate that.

And yet female players have higher rates of injury.

”But it's simply not true that female tennis players are at a greater risk of injury than male ones.”

Am I misreading the injury reviews?

Are female tennis games as skilful and as fit? Yes. Are they working at peak capacity just like the male tennis players? Yes. Are male tennis players ‘better’ than female players? Fuck no. I believe I also suggested that female player are working just as hard as the male players because the logic of physics and biomechanics say to me that for the duration of each game they may be taking more strides and hitting the balls which might require them to reach more often than men to cover the distance. They also are doing this with racquets that allow more power to transfer to the ball and there are multiple studies now available that women have more injury prone connective tissue. It was no surprise to me to read that they are suffering foot and wrist injuries as focus areas according to the injury reviews. It made sense.

I have also read that male and female players tend to cover close to the same distance in a game. How many strides are female players taking versus male players and in what time? Did that movement require the female player to expend more explosive power to get their compared to a male player?

To me, it is a question of sustainable biomechanics vs ability.

There is, of course, no suggestion that women ‘cannot’ play 5 sets at all. The question was asked as to why they don’t. I added that women playing 5 sets is physically asking more of women than of men in output. I also noted that in at least one of the reviews I linked mentioned how long each game took. For instance “while female players showed more game duration on the grass
courts (4:15 min) than males (4:12 min)

That you, personally, could play 5 sets is no bearing on whether a professional female athlete should play 5 sets at a Grand Slam or not.

If you can come up with a better explanation as to why female tennis players are being recorded as having more injuries than male players despite playing 3 not 5 sets, please do make suggestions.

TLDR: This is sounding dangerously close to the Victorian argument that women shouldn't play sport at all because of their delicate constitutions

Maybe this thread below might be interesting reading for you if you actually believe I was in any way saying that.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

gannett · 26/03/2026 09:53

Am I misreading the injury reviews?

In short yes. Limited data and ambiguous conclusions, which the authors themselves acknowledge. (You'll see that in a different timeframe and on different surfaces, they found more male injuries than female injuries.)

As someone who's actually followed the sport closely, neither gender gets disproportionately more injured than the other. I'm not sure you follow tennis or could give examples of specific player injuries this century?

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 09:58

gannett · 26/03/2026 09:53

Am I misreading the injury reviews?

In short yes. Limited data and ambiguous conclusions, which the authors themselves acknowledge. (You'll see that in a different timeframe and on different surfaces, they found more male injuries than female injuries.)

As someone who's actually followed the sport closely, neither gender gets disproportionately more injured than the other. I'm not sure you follow tennis or could give examples of specific player injuries this century?

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

I see. Thanks for letting me know that you are not really interested in a discussion.

”You'll see that in a different timeframe and on different surfaces, they found more male injuries than female injuries”

Yes. And Grand Slam circuit does require playing on the different surfaces.

gannett · 26/03/2026 10:16

I see. Thanks for letting me know that you are not really interested in a discussion.

I'm not interested in a discussion where we have to accept that women aren't capable of playing on courts and pitches with their current dimensions in order to further a weird anti-trans agenda, no.

Yes. And Grand Slam circuit does require playing on the different surfaces.

It's definitely evident that you don't follow tennis.

TheKeatingFive · 26/03/2026 10:21

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

Can you give examples of what you mean? What have you seen that's transphobic?

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 10:29

TheKeatingFive · 26/03/2026 10:21

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

Can you give examples of what you mean? What have you seen that's transphobic?

Keating, I don’t believe the poster even bothered to see what was linked.

And I believe my arguments have been dismissed as transphobic.

There is no attempt to even bother to engage with the points about biomechanics and physics and just plain logic that have been made. I think that any comment I or any others pointing out the differences will be falsely dismissed as diminishing female sports performance whereas that is not the point being made at all.

Livpool · 26/03/2026 10:29

NoSoupForU · 24/03/2026 12:09

I'm not a fan of women's football because the matches I've watched haven't matched the men's game for pace, skill, intensity or atmosphere. That's comparing the team I support and going to live games.

I think the actual infrastructure should be different in the women's game to reflect the physical differences between men and women. A smaller pitch and smaller goals, for example.

Tennis I don't think there's as stark a difference, but the matches for women are shorter than for men, which reflects the stamina difference.

I agree about football. I tend to find people follow men’s or women’s football as the games are so different.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 10:37

It's definitely evident that you don't follow tennis.

So the courts of the four Grand Slam courts are not different court surfaces?

So Wimbledon, The French Open, Australian Open and US Open are all the same surfaces? That is news to me. But thanks for your engagement.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:02

TheKeatingFive · 26/03/2026 10:21

Please don't direct me to the transphobe board.

Can you give examples of what you mean? What have you seen that's transphobic?

I also think that we are seeing the result of some of that discussion that female athletes can simply change their training etc and directly compete with male athletes, because there is no such thing as male physical advantage.

Like miraculously training will mean that women’s strides will match the men’s and their arms will grow and their grip strength will equal men’s grip strength holding the racquet. All these things will disappear with training it seems.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 26/03/2026 11:05

I agree, but this was all I heard mostly for years particularly about women's football. Women's sport if allowed to flourish can be extremely competitive and fun to watch and for many sports of course has to be separate from men's/open events in order to do so.

I also enjoyed the mixed team events at the Winter Olympics, great fun.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 26/03/2026 11:13

Nosejobnelly · 24/03/2026 07:21

I speak to DH about this and he says it’s a much slower game so he gets bored (and he’s a massive footie fan).

So was the men's game at the same stage of development. Also not all men's games are played at a terrific pace.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 26/03/2026 11:17

gannett · 26/03/2026 08:13

This is sounding dangerously close to the Victorian argument that women shouldn't play sport at all because of their delicate constitutions.

The progress of sports science means that all athletes, male and female, can do things now that would have been a higher risk of injury 50 years ago. Training, technique and equipment all mitigate that.

I agree that female-centred sports science has a long way to go - the impact of the menstrual cycle and the frequency of ACL injuries are the most obvious under-studied areas. But it's simply not true that female tennis players are at a greater risk of injury than male ones, and the "shorter limbs => more injuries" theory doesn't hold up at all in tennis.

FWIW absolutely no one in tennis thinks that women wouldn't be able to handle five sets physically. If they had to play best of 5, they would adapt their training accordingly. Some women frequently play three-setters that rival five-setters in length (don't forget that most women get fewer "free points" off their serves so have to expend more effort in more rallies).

Whether women play best of 5 in the future, or whether best of 5 will be eradicated for the men, is something that will be decided by TV studios, and the latter is far more likely at this point.

I once got to play a five-set match, thoroughly enjoyed it. Would play that format more but committing to that length of time, and having that sort of indefinite access to courts, is rare!

Men only play five sets in four tournaments.

lifeturnsonadime · 26/03/2026 11:19

DeftGoldHedgehog · 26/03/2026 11:17

Men only play five sets in four tournaments.

Yes I would love to know in what tournament a woman has played a 5 set match as men only play those in Grand Slams.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:23

"Some women frequently play three-setters that rival five-setters in length (don't forget that most women get fewer "free points" off their serves so have to expend more effort in more rallies)."

yes. I know. So, why again would we arguing for women to be playing five sets?

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:28

lifeturnsonadime · 26/03/2026 11:19

Yes I would love to know in what tournament a woman has played a 5 set match as men only play those in Grand Slams.

Well... apparently mentioning that the Grand Slam circuit is across different surfaces is somehow problematic. I think there is not a lot of actual engagement and a rather lot of knee jerk reaction combined with this belief that training will mean that female tennis players will soon be beating male tennis players.

Let's not forget that apparently equipment that boost performance will just be automatically approved for players to use.

gannett · 26/03/2026 11:28

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 10:37

It's definitely evident that you don't follow tennis.

So the courts of the four Grand Slam courts are not different court surfaces?

So Wimbledon, The French Open, Australian Open and US Open are all the same surfaces? That is news to me. But thanks for your engagement.

That is correct, but your phrasing wasn't that of someone familiar with professional tennis.

yes. I know. So, why again would we arguing for women to be playing five sets?

Who is arguing for this? I'm merely saying they're physically capable of it.

Yes I would love to know in what tournament a woman has played a 5 set match as men only play those in Grand Slams.

The final of the women's year-end championships in the early/mid-90s was best of 5.

gannett · 26/03/2026 11:29

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:28

Well... apparently mentioning that the Grand Slam circuit is across different surfaces is somehow problematic. I think there is not a lot of actual engagement and a rather lot of knee jerk reaction combined with this belief that training will mean that female tennis players will soon be beating male tennis players.

Let's not forget that apparently equipment that boost performance will just be automatically approved for players to use.

Which strawman are you arguing with? Again no one is saying that female tennis players will soon be beating male ones.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:30

The studies into the menstrual cycle and performance are really interesting and really only just being started.

To add, the studies into female bodies and sports performance are only really just begun too.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:34

"Who is arguing for this? I'm merely saying they're physically capable of it."

Has anyone on this thread denied that they are capable of it?

DuncinToffee · 26/03/2026 11:38

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:30

The studies into the menstrual cycle and performance are really interesting and really only just being started.

To add, the studies into female bodies and sports performance are only really just begun too.

Edited

Timely interview with Katja Snoeijs

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/mar/26/everton-wsl-katja-snoeijs-endometriosis-diagnosis

‘Trust your own feeling’: Everton’s Katja Snoeijs on her endometriosis diagnosis

The Netherlands striker tells Tom Garry about the condition that temporarily derailed her Everton career and the symptoms to look out for

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/mar/26/everton-wsl-katja-snoeijs-endometriosis-diagnosis

TheKeatingFive · 26/03/2026 11:43

DeftGoldHedgehog · 26/03/2026 11:17

Men only play five sets in four tournaments.

I agree this is a red herring. I don't think 5 set matches particularly enhance the men's game either.

Helleofabore · 26/03/2026 11:48

Thank you. This really is an area that needs focus.

DuncinToffee · 26/03/2026 11:58

I don't follow tennis so apologies for my football centric posts but this is another area that has only just been addressed, kits designed for women.

https://www.wisean.net/post/from-fabric-to-field-the-evolution-of-women-s-football-apparel

randomchap · 26/03/2026 12:02

DuncinToffee · 26/03/2026 11:58

I don't follow tennis so apologies for my football centric posts but this is another area that has only just been addressed, kits designed for women.

https://www.wisean.net/post/from-fabric-to-field-the-evolution-of-women-s-football-apparel

That's a leap forward from Sepp Blatter saying women should wear skimpier kit.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jan/16/football.gender

I know that's over 20 years ago but it still shows the struggle female footballers have gone through

Soccer chief's plan to boost women's game? Hotpants

Football's most senior administrator attracted the wrath of the women's game last night by suggesting female players wear tighter shorts to promote "a more female aesthetic".

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/jan/16/football.gender