How many kids have left the school? (VAT)

[limeandwater]

It's been long enough now that I think we can make a reasonable conclusion on how bad it has hurt school.

To be honest at our school I only know 3 pupils that have left because of the VAT so not as bad as many feared.

Still heartbreaking for the kids though.

After reading the whole thread, I’m struck by how vast—no, how boundless—the sense of entitlement some parents of state school children seem to have over the lives, money, and choices of private school parents. Isn’t it enough that private school parents help fund state schools?

It happens in every thread—and there’s at least one a day—where parents argue over their choices for their children’s education. State and private school parents face off in their own corners of a virtual UFC ring, or, as my children say, like fandoms in a fan war. My inner child can’t help but laugh, picturing homeschooling parents certain they’ve nailed it—until they inevitably end up in their own corner, debating with the others over who’s best.

We've managed it in wales. There's no grammar schools at all here.

And how is that going for Wales @DarkForces? According to the IFS, Wales is underperforming educationally vis a vis England, NI and Scotland.

Why is Wales underperforming?

https://ifs.org.uk/news/welsh-health-and-educational-systems-are-underperforming

I wonder what has changed for Wales? I lived there 20 years ago and at the time it struck me that standards were in fact higher. It was common for people to take 12, 13 or 14 GCSEs rather than the standard 10.

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a good idea that the Government close grammar schools, it’s just obviously something that will be on their tall poppy list. Attacking grammar and independent schools alongside instigating one size fits all soviet style schooling has been a feature of every Labour Government.

@Lameelephant - private schooling boomed because grammar schools were closed. Now they want to curtail independent schools by anomalous taxation. There are probably a lot of people who have academic kids who would like grammar schools brought back. I do not think they will get rid of the existing ones nor bring back more.
I think there are now more pressure groups in the independent sector pushing back and also may be in the grammar sector. Which is a good thing, as ComprehensiveFuture and one way of thinking was trying to dominate the educational narrative. And now they cannot anymore which is more balanced.

No idea. Everyone who I know has kids who are doing great. My lovely dd certainly is

They won’t be. There is a drop in the birth rate.
There are plenty of state schools closing, who will be very pleased to have more pupils.

It will be heartbreaking when the state schools are overflowing with the ex private school children

@Labelledelune why will it be heartbreaking?

I won’t name names- but there are some seriously whacky posts on this thread!

I agree with everything you’re saying, but it will 100% be on the agenda. The push is very much for one size fits all with SEN going mainstream etc. and any education system that is standing out as successful will be in the firing line

Here is a link to a Labour policy document from 1965 https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/sixties-britain/comprehensive-schools/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
You’ll notice exactly the same nonsense arguments that were used to shrink grammar schools back then, have been used 60 years later to shrink the independent sector: Essentially ‘me jealous, me smash, me make equal, me find something else to make equal’

Sadly the link you posted won’t open, so I can’t comment on it. Pretty sure your somewhat offensive summation does not accurately reflect its wording, though! Out of interest, do you know which party used their time in Government to dismantle the grammar school system? Or, as it should be more accurately named, the Secondary Modern system….

Why is it offensive and who is offensive to? central control of education and reducing education options is a key feature of left wing Governments along with things like language policing and high taxation, the more autocratic the further the reach.

I can tell you are going for some sort of gotcha here, but are you genuinely arguing Labour did not attempt to destroy the grammar system? I’m assuming they’re also not trying to destroy the independent sector currently? That they didn’t introduce tuition fees for university?

Here is a bit of reading on Labour’s history with the grammar system:

https://education-uk.org/articles/31labourgrammar.html

Weren't tuition fees the Con -Lib coalition?

Not to mention destroying opportunities for young people when they do leave education !

Major challenges for education in Wales | Institute for Fiscal Studies

Doesn't Wales have the lowest educational attainment in UK?

Nope, New Labour. New Labour also removed the assisted places scheme where bright children could sit an exam and have their fees fully or partly funded by the Government at independent schools. They banned the creation of new grammar schools.

New Labour were actually quite a moderate Labour government as well.

I would argue that academic kids do well anywhere. It’s the ones who need smaller class sizes who thrive better in private schools.

My nephew got 9s and 8s in his GCSEs in a very mediocre state school.

Absolutely. Assuming academic also means NT, confident, sociable and not at all 'geeky'. In some, not all, state schools that would have them marked out for bullying from day 1. One of the things I love about teaching in the private sector is that its not uncool to be clever, to be aspirational or to be a little quirky and different.

I agree!

My dd is 'geeky' in a comprehensive and not bullied, due to get 8s and 9s at GCSE. The teachers are very good and committed. Pretty offensive comments about state schools tbh.

Then you’re rather easily offended. It’s no secret that state schools have been underfunded for many years, leading to situations where a lot of children, especially those who are ND had to be removed from school for homeschooling. If your dd is doing so well even though she’s not ‘typical’ then that’s great but it doesn’t disprove the fact that many of us have kids who fell through the cracks or would fall through the cracks in state provisions.

A lot of grammar schools had quite ancient foundations, so preexisted state involvement in and funding of education. In the post-war era the government offered the Direct Grant scheme whereby the schools received some central government funding in return for admitting a minimum of 25% of pupils from local primary schools. The local as l education authority usually funded an additional 25% on the same per place rate as they paid for their education at state schools. The remaining 50% of places went to children whose parents paid the full fees, usually after attending a private prep school.

There were also voluntary aided schools that were largely but not wholly state funded. They usually had an endowment and were run autonomously, but didn’t charge fees to any pupils.

These schemes provided huge social mobility, with many children becoming the first university graduates in their family. Consequently, almost all the retired people in my village attended university. Many from very humble origins. The state didn’t dictate class size or the number of subjects a pupil studied etc. All that was left to the school to decide. It provided choice at no additional cost to the tax payer.

Yep. I think some people just don’t see how offensive to state schools, children and parents they are being. I also don’t think they realise that, for example, bullying happens in all schools. I remember a poster telling me that I was “throwing my children to the wolves” by sending them to state school. I think she was genuinely concerned because I had talked about them being musical!

Private schools are some of the worst for bullying in my personal experience.