How many kids have left the school? (VAT)

[limeandwater]

It's been long enough now that I think we can make a reasonable conclusion on how bad it has hurt school.

To be honest at our school I only know 3 pupils that have left because of the VAT so not as bad as many feared.

Still heartbreaking for the kids though.

My dc didn’t go to private school but I did double my mortgage to get us in to the catchment for a decent state and paid for private tutors. So I’m not going to criticise anyone for going private because that would make me a hypocrite.

Hmmm. I don’t think they did it to get any money. They knew that no money would be made. They talked about thousands of new teachers in state schools, funded by the glorious pounds from VAT on education. We’ve never seen any evidence of that have we.

It is a policy of spite, envy, and nastiness. That’s all it ever was. The fact they’ve punished those trying to give their kids a better educational environment, and made the PS system even more exclusive than it was, is despicable. The fact they’ve actively damaged the education of thousands of children is disgusting.

Tread lightly on people’s lives? No.

Bridget Phillipson said she’d look after ‘our children’. Apparently that only mean some of our children. Some of our children are more important than others, it seems.

In my experience, people who left fall in two categories

• living next to an excellent state school/ability to buy a super expensive house there
• parents of kuds with SENDs, who knew their child had no chance in state schools, but now have to accept that

And a third group surely:
School closed and had to leave.

It happened to us, with minimal notice (under 24 hours) and was utterly traumatic.

There is something deeply ironic about the supporters of private schools complaining that Philipson et al think “some of our children are more important than others”……

I'm sure the vast majority of those children will be looked after in their local state school.

Private doesn't always mean better. State doesn't always mean worse. Neither are necessarily a reflection of a parent's view on the importance of education.

@Aislyn good point! we were lucky in that our schools are either ok, or merged with another school which luckily is ok for us. Local state would gave bern a disaster (2 kids with adhd/asd - we’ve tried local state before, it was horrendous)

And thats great for the vast majority, but what about those who aren't? Or do they not matter because their parents earn more than NMW? why make it even harder for parents of kids with AuADHD who just need calm, quiet, smaller settings? I would love that to be available in state for all but its not..and VAT isn't helping with that.

How? Why should a private business be exempt from paying VAT? I went to private school myself and so did all my siblings so this isn’t a dig at private education. However they should pay VAT and if that’s passed onto the consumer that’s simple economics.

The tax earned from VAT can be used to increase funding for state schools. A society that has excellent state schools and excellent private schools is a great one. There is nothing wrong with wealthy people helping to off set public services or helping to reduce inequality. Why would anyone want to be rich and comfortable and live somewhere where children cannot get a decent education due to lack of funding, wouldn’t you want to do the right thing?

All throughout history we have examples of rich people using their wealth to better society and public good. Societies with a wide gap between the rich and poor, even if it’s relative poverty are the ones most prone to instability. It is actually in your best interests and your children’s future best interests that education and overall standards in state schools is increased through extra funding and inequality is reduced. History has proven this time and time again.

In a nutshell I’m all for the VAT on private schools and any private businesses earning over the threshold

@thesnowleopard agree. We have 4 secondary schools close by.
1 has wonderful, brand new buildings, results way under national average snd at least 20% of children having at least one exclusion per year
1 has resultes just above national average but is literally falling appart (roof is failing), so are now up to 50 kids per class - results won’t last
1 is amazing, but catholic with a tiny catchment which happens to be surrounded by very wealthy gated estates, so only accessible to very wealthy people
1 is an absolute shitshow, falling apart and a massive bullying problem
The only kids who get a decent education are the kids of very, very wealthy- for free

Unfortunately not.

My child has Sen and their private school closed.

The council couldn't find a suitable school place for them and they were out of education for a considerable time. Not because I refused any school, but because no school was willing to take a child with significant sen. Special schools are full and other schools are at capacity for Sen that they can manage.

Ah-all the cliches coming out now!!

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding around this, probably quite deliberately on the Government’s part to sell such a nasty and counterproductive policy. Private schools have always paid VAT since it was introduced in the 70s. The Government have introduced a direct tax on the education itself, it’s a tax paid by the children on their education (obviously fee payers are usually parents) not anything else. It’s not, I repeat not, a tax on any business, organisation or charity …it has nothing to do with charitable status or tax subsidies …it’s a very simple and very straightforward tax on children’s education.

Any revenues generated will be used to offset the state cost of educating each child at £9k per year who would have previously gone independent and cost £0.

Ah-all the cliches coming out now!!
@CurlewKate
You missed this cliché:
just the luxury £6000+ a term that the uber wealthy afford so tarquin doesn’t have to mix with oiks
But maybe that’s an acceptable cliché………

I don’t think this is correct that they have always paid VAT. I’m happy to learn new things, however I have googled this and read a few different articles and I don’t think what you are saying is factually correct.

Either way I’m obviously for the policy and as another poster noted it is here to stay, there isn’t a party that will remove it. I hope the extra funds will be funnelled towards raising the standards of state schools, we shall see, give labour time. We’ve had the conservatives for how long and look at the mess they have left us in.

@Aislyn - how is your DC now?
A lot of state education is a shitshow now, some is excellent, a lot of it does depend on the classes and year group a child is in.
All of mine including the autistic one were used by teachers to help out with other kids less academic than them. Until they got to grammar school and then they were fine.
Every child, regardless of how rich or poor, SEND or no SEND, sensitive or boisterous etc deserves a good education and a reasonable amount of attention and positive nurturing.

The UK is massively underfunding state education and is pushing academics at all costs and loads of kids are suffering for it.
The SEND crisis is real and the Government are underfunding and pushing people into blaming children with SEND in their DCs classes. And they are simply trying to now do that to private schools too, create anxiety and division there. An unbalanced stressed society starting with kids and families is a really shit place to be.

It really depends on the area. Where there’s choice parents are moving kids to cheaper private schools rather than putting them into state. People are also moving kids from boarding to day schools. Locally used to do this at natural transition points. Eg Reception, Year 3, and Year 5/6/7. But now we’re seeing new kids come in every year.

It’s is 100% correct, private schools have always paid VAT. This has not changed. Children’s education has always been VAT exempt until this Government.

The Lib Dem’s, Conservative and Reform parties have all said they would remove it. Only Labour and SNP have said it would remain. I don’t know about the others. Labour will not get a second term, so on balance it’s more likely than not that policy will be gone within 3 years.

The extra funds will be used to pay the state education of the children forced out of the independent sector at £9k per child per year, the remainder will be minimal.

It’s fine to be pro a policy and disagree with people but you seem to be pro private schools paying VAT which they already did. The policy is about children paying VAT on their education.

She is 11.

Send provision really is a disaster, at least in my area.

My DD has been rejected by even special schools, as they say her needs are too high, so the council then named random state mainstreams, that cannot meet need (they have explicitly said this). The schools then refused to admit her, which I understood as clearly they would not be able to meet need. My DD was out of school for an extended period as this merry go round went on repeatedly, rather than the council coming up with a reasonable plan.

One of my children is used for this in private school too as they’re good at explaining. But they’re also short tempered so when the teachers tried to put them ‘in charge’ of a new boy who wasn’t the most proactive it resulted in my child walking away when he needed help opening a door.

The parents were told my child was ‘laughing’ at them, the parents of the other child demanded the children were seperated because my child was a ‘bully’. Several months in that boy’s weeing himself & hanging around with boys who aren’t the best influence & my child’s top of the class & the parents want the ‘mentoring’ relationship reinstated but the teacher refuses to do it as she wants my child to be around other children at his level in preperation for sets next year.

It’s all a political shitshow at private school. But hilarious.

I love this story.