Husband’s female colleague’s issue being taken very seriously.

[Sweetmarzipan]

So background. DH works in a fairly male dominated industry.

When he first started in this company he would be away fairly often. One or two nights away every 4/6 weeks. One week in April and the odd conference.

I almost always went with him if I could for no other reason than the free hotel. If there were other colleagues they would have have their spouses with them as well. We became friends with many of them and still socialise. Irrelevant to my post but we always had separate bills and we never exploited expenses and we never saw other colleagues do this either but obviously the room was the same price regardless of occupancy.

Covid came along and other ways of doing things came about so audits etc were done remotely and these trips are now few and far between.

Last week I did join him for the first time in probably 6 months. He was leaving the centre with a male colleague in his fifties and a female colleague (mid thirties but I don’t know if anyone will find ages relevant) who had joined the company around three to six months ago (DH and colleague differ on the dates).

As they left to check into hotel the female colleague asked if they were eating, but they said that they had their wives with them and the male colleague said that she was welcome to join them but she declined. We had booked a pub meal on our own.

They were all together on Friday but over the weekend she has made a complaint suggesting that I and the other colleague’s wife had deliberately tagged along as they believed she would be unprofessional and inappropriate.

An email has now gone out saying that spouses are no longer able to tag along.

Colleague was spoken to face to face and the bosses did seem apologetic. DH was on a site and saw the email and was phoned by one of the directors again with apologies.

Surely she should have been told about the culture of the company. I am really gobsmacked. Two other wives have texted me this morning and they feel the same. We had a really nice lifestyle there which is bound to have created a nice work environment.

Obviously if they are not free to go due to work commitments then they won't, thats up to them. What's the problem if its not costing the company any money?

You're only really describing one scenario/industry though.
DH is travelling if he's working and it's not like that at all. If you're away for months at a time you're not wanting to hang out with your colleagues during every bit of downtime, you need a break.

Doesn’t matter really - with a handful of us out of town for such a short period I’d suck it up and ensure nobody was left alone unless they wished to be. And of course we would use it to debrief.

The colleague was expecting to have dinner with her colleagues and was told “no the wives are here” then allowed to tag along with one couple as an afterthought.

The OP is describing a situation where there is only one night away - a day or two normally means one night. And no, I wouldn’t leave the newer colleague on their own quite apart from short trips generally being intense enough to want that time to debrief.

And of course there are tax implications. Its not an accident that most organisations either ban these freebies or require them to be requested and approved in an auditable manner.

Mmm, we can hardly assume young staff would prefer dinner with older colleagues over having a free evening. Maybe they all want to get on Tinder/Grindr!

Dear people making excuses for the weird woman who complained for no reason - you sound weird too.

While having dinner with colleagues when away on work trips might be nice it is NOT necessary NOT required and NOT expected by anybody reasonable and professional.

It doesn't matter if she was "disappointed" she didn't get to hang out alone with two men in her 50s, the appropriate and only response from her should have been to shut up about it and get on with her life - or join them all for dinner.

She specifically said she thought they thought she'd be behaving inappropriately. Her assumption about that speaks volumes about her and says nothing at all about the situation.

She had no idea what anyone was thinking, but clearly she has form for that. Imagine two older men having dinner with their wives, and you're also invited along and your first thought is "HOW DARE THESE WOMEN COME TO THIS WEEKEND AWAY BECAUSE THEY THINK I WILL BEHAVE BADLY!"

And then she moaned about a nothing burger to management because - well, why? Because she thinks a woman joining her husband for dinner is unacceptable? Because - as she said herself - SHE thinks THEY think she's going to misbehave.

She's a troublemaker. Nobody at that company, male or female of any age, should be left alone with her. Ever.

Its awkward for single people if wives and husbands are allowed to tag along on work trips. On the whole I think companies are right to ban this practice.

she might expect dinner with her colleagues debriefing on the client work. Or simply socialising /building relationships

She might expect that. Seeing the two men went their separate ways for dinner, she ain't gonna get it. It's clearly not the kind of meeting you need to dissect afterwards. As has been frequently said already, the employer can't reasonably order staff to socialise after work, in their own time.

This isn't client entertainment or even a 'corporate social event'. It's subsistence while working away. If the bosses insist on forced socialising, they'll have to spend more and get more people there.

OP said upfront they strictly separate and itemise their expenses. There's no tax implication - a kind PP even linked the relevant section on the govt website.

The spare wheel in this scenario was expecting to have dinner with the colleagues she was working with whilst out of town. Hardly unusual, normal practice on short trips as work extends into the evenings. WAGs regularly tagging along on business trips OTOH - very unusual and has tax implications.

Not relevant at all though, since the weird, intrusive woman didn't complain about the taxes she specifically went whining to management because, in her own mind, these women only came along because they thought she'd get up to something inappropriate.

She was invited with them. That was not good enough for her. She then invented a scenario in her own mind where these strangers thought she was up to no good.

If management want to crack down on wives coming with as freebies - fine.

She's still a troublemaker, who was happy to shit on her colleagues for nothing at all.

There is a benefit in kind implication when its happening regularly. Plus of course clients get pissed off with it when they are paying the bills.

The OP states this a regular thing - freebies for the wives on trips funded by the company or client. This is precisely why its usually banned or has to be requested formally.

I think I’d lodge a complaint back about the implication there might be behaviour that makes my wife uncomfortable, just to have that on register. I’d also add that I’ve always been very flexible for work trips but work has also always been very understanding that it’s a drain on family time and under the new policy this is no longer the case and I will have to consider whether I can do work trips on a trip per trip basis given the impact on my family.

Not relevant at all though, since the weird, intrusive woman didn't complain about the taxes she specifically went whining to management because, in her own mind, these women only came along because they thought she'd get up to something inappropriate.

She was invited with them, but that was not good enough for her. She then invented a scenario in her own mind where these strangers thought she was up to no good.

If management want to crack down on wives coming with as freebies - fine.

She's still a troublemaker, who was happy to shit on her colleagues for nothing at all.

work extends into the evenings

Well, it doesn't on these trips, does it?

It may shock you to learn that not every job is exactly like yours.

No, there isn't. There are different sections for benefit in kind and self-covered expenses. OP is compliant.

In my workplace taking spouses along would be agreed as a one off or if we were making a trip after (tacking on a weekend break in a city I was working in) but wouldn’t be encouraged as a regular thing. The expectation is although our time is our own after working hours we should remain professional and be fully prepared for the next day - so usual routine is a meal with colleagues, some go off to gym or whatever, a glass of wine or two max and then off to rooms to rest or prep for the next day. It’s a good opportunity to get to know colleagues a bit better. Regularly taking advantage of work trips for all the wives to come along and go out to the pub or for a dinner, making it more of a social event, would be a bit frowned upon as the purpose of the trip is professional.

Wives and husbands are all encouraged to come along for annual party etc.

I predict that you’ve never worked in professional roles.

Condescending. Do you think all 'professional roles' are the same? That every company has the same culture?

My company don’t know anything about my spouse and don’t know anything about other people’s spouses either.

Unless you're some kind of undercover spy/assassin, I don't believe that you've never had a single conversation with a colleague about your/their spouse/family.

It’s like something from the Victorian era thinking that a spouse is a part of your at work persona, isn’t it?

Who said anything about making them part of your 'work persona'? What does that even mean? It's not a binary choice between people knowing nothing about your partner or centering them in everything you say and do at work.

Happily I am judged for my talents and skills, and mine alone.

You may well be, but if you've worked with people for any length of time and have never once asked any of them a single thing about their home life - and refuse to discuss yours - then trust me, they are almost certainly judging you on your personality as well.

I wonder if it is actually legal for an employer to have these sorts of restrictions on what their staff do after the work day has finished just because they're traveling? Especially given the damage traveling for work does to relationships.

They are saying you can't meet your spouse or sleep with them even when your work day is done, because you are traveling for work. How is that a reasonable work policy?

The company cannot dictate how your husband spends his time not at work. Once that work day is over his evening is for him to do what he wishes. I would be pushing back on the email asking if they are stating that meal times are work time and therefore paid over time, and whether or not this over time is mandatory.

On work trips I do socialise with colleagues in the evening for lack of anything else to do, but if just one night away I often take away in bed, I suggest this is what your husband now does if working away with this woman… that’s if he can’t just refuse the working away completely.

My partner works away a lot. His company pay for an air bnb for him rather than a hotel so there is room for me and kids to come along too. The price difference has to be with in reason though. But obviously there is no additional cost to your DH company.

I travelled all over with him on my maternity leave. We paid just my flights and the extra hotel nights when extending the break.

I suspect at least some of her colleagues will probably take this attitude. Personally I would try and minimise the amount of time I spent around her, and that's even as someone who gets why the company might think it's easiest not to have anyone other than staff staying in the hotel rooms. I certainly wouldn't want to be placed in a position where she and I might be expected to socialise.

As I said, different industries. I stayed with DH in Europe for six weeks last year and no-one gave a shit. Going to shortly be doing another month.

Where does the OP say she was told "No" the wives are here? Seems like when dinner was mentioned she was informed that the wives were there also and she was welcome to join them. She wasn't left out, she declined, which is her right.

Yes if they are paying for the room, obviously they can’t police it but they can make it policy. If you choose to book your own room and pay your own expenses you can do whatever you like

Great point.

Surprised so many would discuss work business/debrief in a public restaurant. That would be a big no in my sector.
Op mentions audit. Not an auditor but I’d have thought there would be confidential reports, referrals to regulators etc.