AIBU to object to a large co-living dwvelopment near my home?

[Mathsdebator]

I live in the North East. The local paper published an article yesterday about someone applying to turn a shop near me into a "large co-living development' with 18 rooms and communal area. Aimed at young professionals apparently and they're denying it's a HMO.

It's obviously a HMO

There's no parking. The space is small. It's 3 minutes walk from a primary school. I've looked up the developers - they're based in London.

Would you object?

Because most rentals used to require a 12 month tenancy, and doctors rotations, for example, are often 6. Renting for 12 and paying for 6 you’re not going to use, along with council tax and bills then doubling up when you more to your next rotation isn’t a very attractive option for many :)

@Mathsdebator yanbu, you know your area. You raise your objections and be proud of standing up for your area: if they’re unreasonable they won’t prevent the development, and maybe you’ll be reassured it’s a good idea after all. Really unfair to accuse you of racism/classism.

It suits developers ,only one lot of council tax and lots of people paying rent , down south where I live some of these rooms are £750 a month inc bills 6 people in what was a 3 bed terrace house extended to permitted development .

@Mathsdebator I’d suggest contacting your local councillors directly, as well as formally objecting to the planning application. The question that I would ask would be whether the development would be classed as a HMO despite being called a ‘co-living development’ as I think the HMO definition is ‘four or more unrelated people living together and sharing communal facilities’, though you’d need to check that. If it is going to be classed as a HMO, then ask if it will it be subject to the same regulations and licensing.

The area where I live is near a university, so we have a few HMOs on our street (had no noise/ trouble so far but it does put pressure on parking spaces). However, my council has put in restrictions on the number of HMOs allowed in the area, so no further properties can become HMOs if there’s already a few nearby, which they did because of the number of family houses being converted to HMOs. It may be worth asking your councillors if this is something the council could consider bringing in.

I've visited a nice Hmo like this that friends lived in. I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Where i live there are lots of developments that start as over 60s etc, and are now half way houses. Crime and drugs are substantial.
I want to move

Room shares are no notice, virtually.

Theres lots of flat rentals for 6 months though in reality

I think they get round it by having each room with an ensuite and kitchenette area. So technically all in one

But of course you're literally sleeping in the kitchen.

Well several of my colleagues do. They're all 3rd sector workers, just starting out (under 30) and cant afford to buy. The lack of parking wouldn't bother most of them as they cycle places rather than drive because its more environmentally sustainable.

In Sunderland?

Or Lunderland?

Im a Londoner but it irks me considerably that people always, in any thread about anything, say 'well it works in London'

London is unlike most other cities in this country.

No. This sounds a great idea. Wish they had something like that when I moved away for a new job when I was young.
Would you not want this type of set up for your own kids rather than high rent and no support after graduating.

Because a joint tenancy will be longer term. Plus you need to know someone. The co living place dd lives in you can sign up for just a month. She knew nobody when she moved to that city. The coliving has been a massive social thing for her.

Most rooms in a house share aren’t en suite and she won’t share a bathroom.

Im using it as an example, if you scour rentals for Sunderland you'll see the place is overburdened with cheap, nice room, flat and house rentals, you can take your pick. You can choose one with an ensuite if you so wish

Im suspicious of why people seem to be gaslighting the OP about this.

You may not be eligible. I think the whole point is young professionals being together with similar demographic not a bunch of low income randoms. I think there are other resources for those fleeing DV.

My dd is moving back up to the north east, she’s a couple of years post graduation from Newcastle. Quite a few of her friends have spent a year or so in a place like this while they sort out a shared house/after a house share fell through etc.

renting can be tricky if you don’t have a job because you are doing masters or PhD and not everyone always wants to share.

the rooms are small but they have an en-suite and a little kitchenette and honestly they’re better than most student rooms. The ones that I’ve seen (mostly near jesmond) haven’t had any parking because people cycle or walk and metro.

obviously I’m not familiar with Sunderland but there are ones in the north east that have grad students /overseas students/people in their first job.

my mum offered to buy my dd a flat but she rejected because she didn’t know if she’d end up in Newcastle long term.

I think the concerns around such developments are that they start off looking like a wonderful option for young people starting out in their careers. But they often end up being something completely different after a while. So unless there are covenants prohibiting a HMO style clientele, (needs to be defined) then it is open to all sorts of change of use I reckon.

Is that discriminatory? I don't know, but if they are being marketed to one demographic only, that could be classed as discrimination against another anyway.

It's not just possible crime etc. Most people in HMzos are not bad. But HMOs are transient. Too many in small area will create transient population who rarely really cares for/about the area. Plus they do local take housing off from families and others. Many of the not so great landlords cashed in on that with changing houses to HMOs since they make more profit.

Few HMOs, great. Too many, a problem. And I lived in them for years.

I don't either. I no longer live in Sunderland but the housing there is great value, lots of my friends set up lovely homes on basic incomes. I don't see where there could possibly be the demand for this in the 'professionals' space. My worry would be less on the foreigners route but more ex offenders, drug users etc. being housed.

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But they can't scrutinise that way

Of course they can, a PP has said this application has already been called in to the planning committee, the purpose of this is precisely to scrutinise the details and, if necessary, to impose extra conditions - for example putting an explicit ban on turning it into an HMO in future.

You have no idea who the landlord is going to rent to.

I think that that is the whole point, OP is worried that the quiet hard working young professionals might turn out to be noisy HMO residents. There are legitimate reasons why people don't want HMOs near them and one reason is that they can (not always) be noisy and disruptive. They are an easy way for developers to make money when they don't happen to live near them themselves and there are good reasons for restricting the number of HMOs in any one area.

I am sure that the planning application will have explicit details of building proposal.
I'm sure there are, and it's important to read the details on the application. However, when you have been involved in the planning system as long as I have you know very well indeed that where the applicant is a commercial organisation the very first thing they do, after planning permission is granted, is to go to the council and ask to change those details. For example, if I had a pound for every time a developer asked to reduce the number of affordable housing in a new development I would dine out every night

It can be a lot moving hundreds of miles away from home. Renting for the first time, not being aware of what bills when and who to contact. Also you know no-one.
So long as renters are vetted it means all bills inclusive and bunch of people in the same boat as you like a 2nd family.

Several such developments are going up round here, but larger, mostly in or near the town centre. They will comprise small studio flats with communal areas. Rents are not cheap from what I gather but they do include bills. All aimed at ‘young professionals’ aka with a job and enough salary to afford the rent.

I am an Australian teacher who worked in the UK for a year on an exchange. I had a bedsitter and it suited me down to the ground: minimal upkeep and responsibility, not enough space to collect too much stuff, close to transport and my school. Not interesting enough to invest too much emotional energy so that I felt no sadness leaving it or nostalgia afterwards. I knew of three other teachers in nearby schools who were in similar circumstances.

Object- on planning grounds- look on planning portal for these.
Contact your ward councillor and ask if they can call it into planning committee if the officer recommends approval. Good luck.

X

this information is COMPLETELY WRONG.

Anyone can object, you don’t need close proximity, and you don’t need to be invited to comment.

Depending on the borough, the develeloper will need to get planning permission for Change of Use.

OP, you need to roll up your sleeves and do some proper research on how to object, contract you local councillors. If you feel strongly, form an action group with others. Read up of planning law. This is stuff any homeowners should know but shockingly few people understand it. The developer is relying on ignorance and apathy to get these conversions pushed through.

good luck opposing this!

@Macmeme I posted above that it has already been called in to committee for a full review. To quote the councillors “we believe the proposal raises important and serious questions that deserve greater transparent, scrutiny and public discussion, particularly around its impact on the local community and the suitability of the development”.

I dont know if people are being deliberately obtuse on this thread

No one is arguing that there shouldnt be rooms to rent, bedsits to rent. Ive made the point that these are necessary and Im on another thread adivsing the OP to rent a bedsit

Its the fact that this small plot seems to be earmarked for 18 rooms, it seems incongruent with the plot and the properties around it and isnt your average house share/landlord offering a room/bedsit

Its not akin to the chichi developments that people keep citing in London or other cities.

There are tons of bedsit rentals in the area by the looks of it for people who dont want long term committment/students/professionals at the uni and hospitals