Please help family and rent

[limeandwater]

Lurker of ten years plus, and looking for some anonymous and honest feedback.

Approx 5 years ago sister split from husband. On the surface they lived a very nice life, but long story short her ex had mortgaged everything against his business and they lost the lot and were left with nothing.

My husband and I are fortunate enough to have a number of properties. We let her and her two kids stay in one of our houses and used words to the affect "it's yours rent free for as long as you need it."

She met a man approx two years ago who we like and is good to her and the kids and 3 months ago she asked if he could move in. We said yes - but presumed rent would follow.

To give you some non specific info the man in question earns approx 60k per year and rents out the flat he was living in for £1600pcm which I imagine would more than cover his mortgage. They live a nice life if that matters. Holidays, meals out, etc.

We are in South East and the 3 bed house she lives in would rent at approx £2800 per month. My husband thinks its cheeky that no offer of rent has been made. He doesn't want or expect market value - and in fact would probably only want about half.

I agree with him, it's a bit cheeky, but then think back to our wording 5 years ago.

My husband is a lovely man and never gets angry, but last Sunday we went out for Sunday lunch and we split the bill. I could tell tell he was annoyed and asked him what was wrong - and he stated "he lives rent free in our property, he could have got lunch."

Who is right and what do we do?

Surely when she asked if he could move in, that was the time to tell them you'd like him to pay, given that you've previously said she could have it rent free as long as they need.

Yes you are probably right, there was a presumption on our part that it would follow. We have been a bit silly.

I think rather than ask for rent, I think it’s time for them to move out. Can you give them notice and say you her the property back again - give decent notice. But honestly renting to family and her new man is going to be complicated and awkward

To be fair it is taking the piss. The house was given to your sister rent free all the time she was single but i guess this wasn't really spelt out.
I would now be expecting rent now she has a new partner who can afford to contribute.

Your sister has had a rent free house for 5years and now the boyfriend for 2 years? they must be incredibly thick skinned not to offer rent.
Time to have a chat and say 5 yrs is more than enough time to sort herself out, tell her you could be getting £2500pm for the house and it’s having a detrimental affect on your finances as you didn’t anticipate it being this long.

YABU. You're angry over giving someone something for free and now wanting payment. When she asked about moving him in, that was the time to mention you wanted payment. Rather than being annoyed just talk to her and say terms will be changing and give her a date you'll be expecting rent paid. Then if she refuses you can be angry.

I think you were wrong to presume that an offer of rent should have been forthcoming due to the offer you had previously made to her. You should have been explicit with your expectations when your sister discussed the partner moving in. That said, I think it’s time to renegotiate the terms of your sister living there if you are no longer happy for her and her family to live there rent free.

You should have raised the issue then but it’s not too late.

What is stopping you from having the conversation now?

I don't think it's unreasonable to want him to pay rent, I just don't know why you presumed it rather than having the conversation.

You need to either charge rent or ask them to leave. Give them good notice if you want to be nice.

Now you’re back on your feet sis we are going to need to look at the house again. You’re going to need to either start paying X rent still a bargain or move out by October so we can get it started for a rental again.

No sister for 5 years, and partner for 3 months. She has been with him 2 years.

I would say something along the lines of the house was there to help her while she was on her own, now her circumstances have changed massively, the current market rent is xxxx. In fact, you should have some kind of formal tenancy agreement with her whatever you are or aren't charging her, to protect yourselves. I think she (and definitely he) is being a CF. Sit down and calculate how much you could have made from that property if let commercially, that's how much you've already "given" her. It's not going to be easy or pleasant, but why should she depend on you for so long?

I think it's your sister who is a bit cheeky, not the new man. For all you know, they've discussed finances before he moved in and she's told him he doesn't have to pay rent. She's now had 5 years to get on her feet, it's time for a gentle conversation about her moving out.

I think it’s on you two to speak to your sis about paying rent now that her circumstances have changed. Why would she say anything when you said rent free forever. It’s reasonable to change the expectations it’s not reasonable to expect them to .

Reading this it seems it's probably our fault and lack of good communication on our part.

I will have the convo.

You presumed rent would start to be paid but didn’t ask for some. You’d told your sister it was rent free for as long as she wanted to live there. She still wants to live there. She isn’t in the wrong.
If you want rent to be paid now you need to have a proper conversation around the circumstances having now changed so it’s time to pay rent.

She's completely taking advantage of you. You say they are living a good life, well that's because they have no rent or mortgage! Enough is enough

What do you mean 'probably' right?

It's ridiculous that you didn't sort out the rent there and then.

You need a strong conversation with them both (obviously).

I’m curious if the partner hadn’t moved in, would you have expected her to start paying rent at some point?

I am not sure it needs to be with him, but yes will speak to my sister this afternoon.

No, probably not.

I would tell her going forward you want x amount of rent or it’s time for them to move out so you can rent it out.

@limeandwater does the partner know your sister is living there rent free? Before he moved in I'm sure they discussed costs, splitting the bills etc so he may think he is contributing fairly given what your sister has told him. If I moved in with a divorcee I wouldn't assume that they were living rent free in a relatives house, I'd assume it was theirs and there was a mortgage.

I would imagine he does, but I can't say for sure.

It needs to be with both adults living in your property.