Teacher gave us SNAP-IV form out of the blue - AIBU?

[primmy713]

I have a child in year 5, and since she was little, we have always been told by teachers that she often day dreams in class. We are very well aware, and sometimes getting her to sit and start her schoolwork can take a few prompts, but she always completes it and does very well. Her test scores over the past few years have been very good, and she enjoys school a lot. She's quite social, and like any girl her age chats to her friends (and sometimes in class!), but other than that we've always been told she's a good, kind and respectful student, and her tests scores prove the same.

She has a teacher this year who I always thought was just OK. But we never complain, we just get on with it. At our first parent teacher conference this year, she complained how our daughter fidgets in class and struggles to focus. We worked really hard with her over the past month, and now she's nailing all her subjects and one of the top performers in her class.

Last week during our parent teacher meeting, her teacher presented us a SNAP-IV form and said she believes our daughter suffers from ADHD and can't sit in her seat. She said that she often will get up in a lesson to sharpen her pencil, and it takes a few prompts to get her to start her school work, and somehow she always manages to finish them.

She never shared her answers for the form, but my husband and I filled one out ourselves and met with the SEND coordinator who reviewed our two forms, and said that the teacher had 18 marks against her vs our 7, so she probably wouldn't quality for ADHD support, but all agreed that her taking her time to start assignments was a red flag. She asked about her reading ability, and I explained that she's an avid bookworm who can read fluently. Her last set of state test scores show reading at 125 and grammar at 121.

So I am really not sure what to do with this information, besides explaining to my daughter to take school more seriously by not leaving your chair during lessons, and disrupting the teacher by talking to classmates etc. I am a bit angry and annoyed, why did she wait to share this? Is this normal behaviour to spring this on a parent with a SNAP IV form?

TBH, @primmy713 , your posts made me angry. I think you're lucky DD's teacher cares.

I was (and still am) an overachiever. I have never got a B for anything academic in my life and have on occasion been told I've had the top marks in the country. I am not an idiot and I don't have a learning disability either.

However, as a girl/woman, I spent my whole life masking my ADHD traits to fit in. I didn't even realise. Because this is what girls do.

We are socially conditioned at a young age to be nice, be kind, look pretty and not make a fuss. Those of us with ADHD have to hide so much to fit in, and when we don't know that's what we're doing... it's exhausting.

I made it into my middle age without having a single adjustment for me.

I thought I was going through menopause on account of how ruddy tired I was all the time. It was actually just exhaustion after decades of pretending to be normal without even realising I had been doing that.

You're getting hung up on medication.

An ADHD diagnosis isn't about medication. It's about self-awareness and the gift of stopping hating yourself for all the things you cover up.

I feel quite tearful thinking about how my life could have been different if I'd known at your DD's age. ADHD means I struggle to regulate my emotions. You only know how your posts have affected me as I've told you. No one ever gave me a grade for being in control of my emotions and thoughts - no one knew how hard it was.

Believe me, those of us who are academically gifted can benefit from a diagnosis for reasons that have nothing to do with our abilities to study or work. And we're not going to tell our nearest and dearest what emotional messes we are if we don't have permission (a diagnosis) to not be perfect at everything.

I don't take medication for my mood - I just know why I feel this way, and it lets me calm down. In the time I've taken to write this, I feel better. Pre-diagnosis, I would still be processing those strong emotions and I'd be snapping at people all day. And I'm not going to apologise to anyone - including myself - for what I know was a disproportionate emotional response. I just accept this is what my brain does, and that's okay, because I am brilliant at so many other things.

God. Imagine how much less angst-ridden I would have been as a teen if I'd known that.

My daughter was slow to start her work because she was thoughtful ( her teachers commented she was slow to settle and start). She ended up with all A grades at GCSE and A levels and a first at a Russell university.

yes, thank you. we had a good pep talk before school today and I told her to please treat it like the most serious job. make sure your pencil is sharp before each lesson. use the loos during break time. and keep your eyes on the board and on the teacher at all times. and if she feels herself wandering a bit - refocus and pay sharp attention.

I think I will request a follow up meeting to get some more concrete examples of what she's doing, and what we think can help her.

aw that's great to hear - well done to her (and you of course!).

If it is a 'mis-diagnosis' then we could only hope for a similar outcome.

Absolutely well said.

If she actually has ADHD, telling her to just refocus is like telling someone with no legs to just walk.

Those of us with ADHD are not naughty or intentionally not doing things. We know we need to focus sometimes. Knowing that is not enough.

We are often focused on something much more complicated because it's more interesting.

Someone with ADHD doesn't need to be told to focus. They need help with task initiation.

You are very lucky.

My son has ADHD but school didn’t take it seriously because he wasn’t physically lashing out at his peers or teacher. I had to pay privately.

Having ADHD doesn’t mean having issues academically either but time limits become more important as she gets older (secondary) because of exams and there will be expectations to organise herself too eg get up in the morning on her own, bringing the right equipment to lessons. I’m not saying that she has ADHD but if she does, it will be good to have the support and understanding why she can’t focus as well as her peers. No diagnosis as a teen could mean people think she’s lazy or being difficult

Being angry at a teacher who is suggesting help for your child seems like an inappropriate reaction.

the adjustments my son gets are

prompts when day dreaming, rather than being treated as if he’s naughty and not paying attention

regularly reminders to complete work and check-ins to make sure he’s on top of things - again rather than treating him as lazy and forgetful

breaks during class and during exams - he’s doesn’t get or need extra time overall but needs time adjustments to help with focus

he’s recently started on medication which helps him to focus during the day

they’ve helped source particular study and revision aids which are tailored towards adhd learning styles to help with his exams

at home we are working on routines to help mitigate against time blindness (being late and disorganised) and lack of object permanence (loosing stuff all the time)

hes applied for university and there’s loads of support available for him there including a free laptop amongst other things

you can still be splendidly performing academically (my son is) whilst struggling with adhd

I am so sorry this has upset you so much. I do genuinely mean that.

"An ADHD diagnosis isn't about medication. It's about self-awareness and the gift of stopping hating yourself for all the things you cover up."

Your comment really resonated with me here. Our 10 year old is not perfect, she has asked us many times if we want her to be perfect and we have always told her no- she's not a robot. We believe that children need to make mistakes and learn from them. We are very lucky she comes to us, about the good and the bad, what is hurting her feelings, something she did wrong and wants to fix. She has a beautiful old soul, and can be quite sensitive which we embrace. We would never in a million years try and fix her or change her. And I think that's why this whole thing has be so bothered. It almost feels like the teacher is trying to stop her from being herself, and wants her to be this picture perfect child sitting there silently.

If she does have ADHD, then we will hapilly get her the right tools/ resources to deal with it. I have asked her before if she thinks she's different, and her answer has always been no, and she can't understand why her teacher would think that. She has been moved to the front of the classroom with the other ADHD kids, and I asked her if she knows why she was moved there, and she told me because she's there to guide them and help them with their school work. Bless her little heart.

Honestly OP, I can’t stress enough that you should accept any help offered. The childhood support pie is nowhere near big enough for all those who need it. So if you’re offered a piece, you should grab it with both hands! There are SO many kids struggling at secondary school, whose problems at primary school were dismissed as being something they’ll grow out of.

And yes, school isn’t the whole of life, but unless you choose to home educate, school is the place where your child is going to be for a lot of years. Like it or not, kids have to find a way to fit in and get an education out of it.

besides prompts - what else is available or would you suggest?

Op this is the equivalent of telling someone with a prosthetic leg to focus better to walk in a straight line when it's their need for crutches and pain from the prosthesis effecting their walking.
I know I've commented a few times but you seem to only be replying to or accepting of anyone who gives you the answer you want which is your daughter doesn't have ADHD when those of us who have been there are saying this is what we were like as children.
I could read and do negative numbers in maths before I started school at 4. I was able to do my university dissertation of a research project needing to be 10k words the night before it was due. All my school reports said I was a friendly chatty child who distracted others and just made silly mistakes but was capable and bright.
Cut to me at 25 having a mental breakdown because all the energy of masking and trying to be normal and keep up with my peers got too much and I'm not alone in that. So many people who were seen as intelligent gifted children but no trouble finding they struggle as adults because no one recognised their difficulties because they weren't getting in trouble.
To have a school recognise possible ADHD in a girl is so difficult, they are notoriously bad at it because how well girls mask.
I can't help but wonder do you see yourself in your daughter? Were you like this as a child? So many parents find out they themselves are ND when their children are diagnosed. Are you rejecting it or reacting so much because you see yourself in her?

Hm, I have been replying to quite a few people, even asking advice how their child coped. I am definitely open to hearing everyone's honest opinion - otherwise I would have never posted on here!

No, I wish I was more like my daughter when I was a child. I was terrified of everything, everyone, and barely spoke. She's also very sporty, on a few team sports. The similarities we have - both overthinkers?

OP I think your questionnaire didn’t score high because you see everything as your daughter just being your daughter, nothing wrong with that, it is actually quite beautiful, but it is not how the screening questionnaires work. You say that when she has to do more complex things, like decimals, she struggles. You put a confidence lens on it, and say you sit down with her and explain and then she’s golden. What fits more in this situation is avoidance of sustained mental effort and struggle with task initiation when it is not interest driven. The list of daily prompts you have for her is a standard tool for kids with ADHD- so I would say you don’t see her challenges because at home you naturally put in accommodations for her (I’m going to hazard your quite child-led in your parenting). Your daughter doesn’t see herself as different to others as you actually have raised a little girl who is confident in herself and has a good self-image - which is a sign of great parenting. The thing is, the school is not child-led, the school not only needs telling that a list of prompts helps your daughter but also someone with a lot of letters after their name to say: “you’re not pandering to overanxious parent this child legitimately has those needs.”. The teacher sees more of her challenges because at school there is a mismatch between how your daughter’s brain works and the environment. The purpose of diagnosis, for a child like yours that is happy in herself, is to make the school put in the accommodations and to possibly help her explore herself later when/if she wants/needs to. You know the answer to your question about accommodations though - you do it at home, day in day out, without thinking twice. If the school gives your daughter a task list for each lesson, teacher gives her a gentle prompt when she day dreams, or knows to look out for signs of her struggling with new topics by for instance sharpening pencils repeatedly it will all make a noticeable difference to her life at school. So just tell them to do what you do and stop expecting her to will herself to behave better (from everything you’re saying she is trying her hardest already).

I am more irked with the way it was handled. If she genuinely cared and thought there was an issue- why not suggest a meeting and go through all the points in more detail, vs a 10 min meeting (which she was late too because she was trying to print some things off) and then keep glancing at the clock every 30 seconds hinting our time was up. We were genuinely concerned and interested in what she had to say. She gave us the form and asked us to fill it out, and meet with the SEND specialist. It happened all so fast, and not really sure what to make of it all with our GP saying too many kids are over-diagnosed and she won't push forward with it.

Re prompts- yes that makes sense. Her teacher mentioned she gets those now if she hasn't started her work. One of the girls at her table who has been diagnosed with ADHD has these 'fidget rings' and gave one to our daughter. The girl is allowed to touch hers when she's losing focus, but our daughter was told she wasn't allowed to have it out.

So if this teacher really was concerned about her ADHD, surely she could have these 'fidget' things with her? Again, all questions that have been baffling me since it's been a week since our meeting and have had zero follow up from the school about it.

I have a lovely relative who is also an amazing mum - her kids are her priority and she is so good at supporting their interests. All through primary, teachers kept mentioning that her son would frequently fall off chairs because he was wriggling so much, that he was a day-dreamer, etc. Every time, she and her husband were dismissive: ‘he’s only little’, ‘unrealistic expectations for a little boy - he should be out climbing trees, not in classrooms’, ‘he’s imaginative/creative’, etc. By year 5 he was quite clearly underachieving - he was bright and intelligent but he never finished any of the work. The school put a couple of interventions in place that made an enormous difference (but were definitely not subtle - he was doing things differently to the rest of the class in a way that they had been unwilling to consider for the previous 6 years.) My relative was indignant - why did they leave it so long with him struggling and falling behind. I love her and I know she was doing her best, but I had to bite my tongue - they tried, carefully, to suggest there were problems from Reception. They got the message that the parents weren’t going to accept there was a problem, in fact they didn’t see the behaviours as problematic at all. They did what they could without singling him out or getting complaints from the parents. Only once he’d fallen behind did they accept there was a problem and then blamed the school for not doing anything.

He’s in Year 10 now and doing great, but it was a tricky few years. OP, you should accept the information and be grateful that the teacher cares and is trying to help.

I wish I had help at school. I was diagnosed at 60 after pushing for an assessment.
things have been so difficult for me all through my life and I had no idea that other people don’t have the same struggles.

I was also very bright. Passed 11 plus for grammar school. Avid reader. Good degree. But what a struggle. I’m still on waiting list to try meds

try to accept that the teacher is with your daughter a lot and it may be worth having an assessment if you can organise one.

Oh, don't worry about upsetting me. I just wanted to give you a real example of how ADHD can silently affect women, and why just having a diagnosis can be so empowering.

Re helping - people with ADHD have a real love/hate relationship with pomodoro timers. Some find it helps a lot and others get nothing out of them.

I can benefit from help in starting a task. Doesn't have to be complicated - I just need help in the first 30 seconds. Once I am physically doing it, it's easy.

I can't write you an explanation of a really complicated technical thing right now. Sit beside me, tell me to close all those other applications I don't need, watch me open Word and type the title, and I've forgotten you're there. You can go away, come back in half an hour, and I've written a beautiful 5,000-word report.

But just tell me to do the thing? Sure, I'll do that 'later.' I really do mean that. But now it's next week, I haven't started, I'm doing something else even more complex and I feel horribly guilty for not doing the thing. You're annoyed and I'm mentally beating myself up. And it feels even harder to do the thing now.

I have had doctors flat out deny both my daughter and I could have ASD. They are not all trained in the subject. Neurodiversity comes in many forms.

most parents are absolutely begging for a diagnosis by the time they finally get one for their child. They aren’t often important for adults, but the school system is so rigid that a diagnosis is the only way to get ND children the education they deserve.

The teacher said medication, but that is only one intervention. Our primary classrooms have a variety of seating options so students can get their wiggles out while staying focused on the lesson. They can take exams in quiet spaces without distraction. These are things that would benefit all students, but sadly they tend to only be available with a diagnosis.

Why do you trust one GP's opinion over that of paediatricians? Because it's the latter who are doing the apparent over-diagnosing, not the SENCOs who are sending in referrals or anyone else. The paediatricians are specialists trained in their field. I genuinely don't understand why you are so quick to take the opinion of one GP over basically an entire specialism. Incidentally, where I am very few people are referred via a GP as it can go straight through school and without any scoring either. It's just a form where you describe behaviours in various scenarios.

I've picked on @TorturedParentsDepartment 's post to quote on here amongst many similar ones (I hope you don't mind!) as our DGD7 is exactly the same.She is awaiting an assessment date but the hope is that she gets one before she goes into KS2 (although given that it's nearly Easter now chances of that seem to be fading🙄).Her Reception Class teacher first alerted DD and her husband and said that she was keeping an eye.Year 1 was spent filling in forms so it seemed,but as learning became more structured,so DGD's difficulties in embarking on a task became more obvious. They were grateful for the 'heads up' early on.

I clearly have ADHD. Constantly off task at school, can't settle to a task. Needed HUGE pressure at uni to be able to really focus.

DC has gone from being about 70% unfocused to being on task, alert, able to take in verbal commands etc etc due to meds. NOT that I think meds are the answer for all children.

It could well be that your child doesn't need meds. And that the school is able to support them well enough without a diagnosis. But by secondary school, things could be very different. Plus, as a parent, surely we want to completely understand our children?

My DC is intelligent, already has a focus in life that I think will be their occupation later in life. Their ADHD hyperfocus will only benefit them in that.

If the school are prepared to help now, I'd take their hand off! By middle or secondary school they may be a lot less willing. But hard to undo/deny a professional diagnosis.