Teacher gave us SNAP-IV form out of the blue - AIBU?

[primmy713]

I have a child in year 5, and since she was little, we have always been told by teachers that she often day dreams in class. We are very well aware, and sometimes getting her to sit and start her schoolwork can take a few prompts, but she always completes it and does very well. Her test scores over the past few years have been very good, and she enjoys school a lot. She's quite social, and like any girl her age chats to her friends (and sometimes in class!), but other than that we've always been told she's a good, kind and respectful student, and her tests scores prove the same.

She has a teacher this year who I always thought was just OK. But we never complain, we just get on with it. At our first parent teacher conference this year, she complained how our daughter fidgets in class and struggles to focus. We worked really hard with her over the past month, and now she's nailing all her subjects and one of the top performers in her class.

Last week during our parent teacher meeting, her teacher presented us a SNAP-IV form and said she believes our daughter suffers from ADHD and can't sit in her seat. She said that she often will get up in a lesson to sharpen her pencil, and it takes a few prompts to get her to start her school work, and somehow she always manages to finish them.

She never shared her answers for the form, but my husband and I filled one out ourselves and met with the SEND coordinator who reviewed our two forms, and said that the teacher had 18 marks against her vs our 7, so she probably wouldn't quality for ADHD support, but all agreed that her taking her time to start assignments was a red flag. She asked about her reading ability, and I explained that she's an avid bookworm who can read fluently. Her last set of state test scores show reading at 125 and grammar at 121.

So I am really not sure what to do with this information, besides explaining to my daughter to take school more seriously by not leaving your chair during lessons, and disrupting the teacher by talking to classmates etc. I am a bit angry and annoyed, why did she wait to share this? Is this normal behaviour to spring this on a parent with a SNAP IV form?

Maybe try to find out whether labelling her ADHD changes anything at all for her e.g. approach at school, educational methods, etc. These labels often stress parents, who then pay thousands for private assessments, but things sometimes don't change at school at all. So the first question I would ask would be: how will pursuing an assessment help my child at school?

This.

Swop ADHD and forms for needing glasses. How would you feel if your DD's teacher had mentioned that DD had problems reading the board etc.

Sometimes teachers notice things, sometimes parents do. but, in general, the sooner things are noticed the sooner help and assistance can be offered.

Just because your child is smart doesn’t mean that they won’t have ADHD. The teacher wouldn’t raise concerns for no reason, I’m sure she has other things to do.

These are 2 separate issues, IMO.

The teacher may not be the best. Clearly you don't like her delivery and feel she isn't great for your child. Not all teachers are good for all kids. Some will flourish under her, some won't.

DD has a term and a half left with her and then she moves on. Unless DD becomes upset by teacher's actions/school avoidant etc, I'd leave this alone.

What is confusing is that you seem affronted by the idea that your child could have ADHD. Why?

You get that many bright kids are ND, right?

What's wrong with letting a child understand their brain?! Nobody is saying your child is broken.

It's literally the teacher's job to identify potentially undiagnosed issues and raise it with parents. Not doing so would be a failure on her part.

IMO, not getting DD tested would be a failure on yours.

Definitely this. We've spent over £5,000 getting private assessments because the school didn't want to support our DC with their very overt ADHD. Had to force their hand with lots of evidence.

And your child's teacher, @primmy713, is offering help? How is that an insult? It will lead to things like extra time in her exams, which given her faffing around and taking a lot of time to settle to a task, will be invaluable.

Think yourself very lucky to have found such a good school!

Ooooops guess I better hand my master's back, and not bother with my PhD, as i have ADHD. Nobody told me!

Your approach to this is so wrongheaded!

ADHD doesn't mean your child is naughty or not bright or that there's something negative at all. It means she may struggle with concentration and need to fidget. Plenty of extremely intelligent people have ADHD. It's not "a mark against her" if a teacher identifies some ADHD traits.

Your child's teacher sees hundreds of 9 and 10 years old kids in her career. She no doubt is a better judge than you of what is typical behaviour of a child that age and what is an outlier.

If she's noticed your daughter is inattentive, a daydreamer, fidgets and gets derailed from tasks, it's a very good thing that she raises it. She's trying to get support that might benefit your daughter.

In old Mumsnet parlance, you need to give your head a wobble.

Wow.

Really thought we were past this point of acting like any suggestion of neurodiversity is seen as an attack. Genuinely, what are you so afraid of, @primmy713 ? That someone might teach her coping mechanisms for her attention issues? I understand you may be genuinely worried, because I agree that there were a few years where if there was even a suggestion of ADHD, they started medicating the child. But it’s definitely NOT like this anymore.

Unfortunately, I wasn’t diagnosed until I was an adult. I had all the same struggles your daughter is having but, like her, I was “intelligent” so either they were willing to ignore my issues as long as I finished my schoolwork; it seems that, at that point, only those with the most severe symptoms were diagnosed. I still don’t take medication; it’s not necessary and wouldn’t help anyway, since I have inattentive ADHD, more than hyperactivity.

Worse, for a very long time, there has been this assumption that “very smart” people don’t have ADHD. Why? Because we assume anyone who’s smart enough should “be able” to stay seated? I promise you, this isn’t about your daughter’s intelligence, nor is it a statement on your parenting. If it were ASD, no one doubts that there have been some geniuses who had that. But when you look at biographies of true geniuses in our history, you’ll notice that at least a few of them mention behavior that looks like ADHD. I did laugh a bit at @InLoveWithAI ’s comment.

No matter how smart your daughter is, if she genuinely has ADHD and it sounds like she might, she will always struggle unless she gets some support in how to manage it.

Also, you don’t have to agree with the teacher. But the teacher’s concern should be enough for you to get her assessed. It sounds like it might be more helpful to have a professional assess her than to rely on either the teacher’s opinion or yours (as you don’t agree with the teacher and I doubt they’d agree with you, but this isn’t about whether you like the teacher; it’s about getting your daughter support).

Thanks for all your replies - so when we asked the school send support staff how a diagnosis would help - she said potentially medication so she can do things such as finishing a book. Which left me baffled as my child is an avid reader. She also said that they would give her more breaks in an exam, which I found with my daughter, then min she has a break - it's harder for her to start her work again, so she's better off staying focused on her task.

As for home life, if we give her a list of tasks to do, IE do your math book, do X pages in English, then get dressed, brush your teeth etc, she can do it all pretty easily all on her own. If it's a more complicated assignment (let's stay decimals) there will be a delay to start because she's not as confident in that work. But ultimately, she will get it done and ask for help if she needs it.

I met with our GP this morning, who also knows her very well because our sons are good friends. She insisted that she doesn't believe she shows ADHD tendencies, and MOST children fidget, daydream and need prompting doing tasks they don't always want to do. She said even if she is ADHD, it would be mild and there's not much that can be done to assist her besides giving her a label. And was against putting her forward for any testing or pushing it foward and said absolutely not to medication.

If my daughter does have some form of ADHD, I am totally fine with that. I think a lot of adults have it and we have all just learned our own coping mechanisms to deal with it.

I am angry with the way the teacher could't really us concrete examples and it felt done very unprofessionally. Her past teachers who told us sometimes she would day dream a bit, I would flat out ask them if they though she had ADHD and they said no - and also said the same as our GP, that a lot of kids at this age do the same things...

As someone who at 54 who had just been diagnosed I'd say please listen to her teachers.

I was the same as your daughter, avid reader etc but was told the other stuff was just not trying hard enough. I went all the way through uni twice and it was always my fault I didn't try hard enough. It wasn't that at all.

The strategies will be aimed at helping your daughter. So she struggles with task initiation and will need help with that. She's like to struggle with rejection sensitive too.
The other thing that usually goes hand in hand is hypermobility, which makes holding pens for long periods of time an issue. It's worth keeping an eye out for joint and bone pains and joint over inflection. I was told that was all in my head too until I was 46

so you’re angry at someone trying to help her? As a teacher when I have parents like that I do wonder why I bother! The gp and other teachers aren’t experts. I would never say a child probably doesn’t have something, I’ve not got the expertise to know that.

Your daughter is very lucky to have this teacher this year, you should be thankful not ungrateful.

I think you should thank the teacher for thinking about your child’s best interests.

My very bright child with adhd has a miserable time at school until year 9 when she was diagnosed.

You are shooting the messenger. This is really common when concerns about a child are raised, particularly relating to SEND.

“The teacher isn’t qualified to make those comments, or the teacher should have told you sooner or the teacher shouldn’t have phrased it that way or the teacher shouldn’t have raised it at parents evening” - this being angry at the teacher because they have suggested there might be something ‘wrong’ with your child is absolutely normal but totally irrational - don’t act on it!

Take the teacher’s concerns on board, maybe they see different things to you or your friends due to being in a different environment with different expectations and a peer group right there for comparison. Keep an eye on it.

I wouldn’t expect all GPs or teachers to be a specialist. And I wouldn’t expect her teacher on the spot to be able to explain all adjustments and implications, that’s not her job.

If you’re not interested you don’t have to pursue questions about whether this diagnosis is a fit, but this seems to have really irked you. Is there really anything to lose?

ADHD is lifelong and having a label is helpful if you need support at university or with work - where no one can break down tasks for you and prompt you.

I was an avid and very advanced reader, devouring novels and encyclopaedias. I was seen as very gifted in many areas… An ADHD brain can focus but it’s very interest-driven. The brain often works a lot harder though with ordinary tasks, which can lead to burnout and mental health issues.

Not everyone who is referred for assessment is diagnosed btw - but you might still learn more about your daughters learning style.

Ah yes, my brother was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult and has a PHD from Oxford. He said the only change he made as an adult was getting a Ritalin prescription to help him study all night for exams.

Yep, one of the reasons I left the profession. I once had a parent complain because I sent a marvellous me (praise / award system) to her about her son 🤷‍♀️

Thanks for your reply - yes my DD is the same. But the minute an assignment (like decimals) looks challenging, she doesn't have the confidence to try and tackle it on her own - and we have to sit with her and find ways to teach her. Once she learns something - she's golden.

We are definitely up for seeing how we can help, but as the SEND teacher told us - because she hasn't scored enough points for an assesment based on the teachers results and our results- there's not much we can do unless we go private. And our GP said the same, she wouldn't put her forward for more assesments either.

I have looked up some books online, so will definitely do some more reading on raising a child with ADHD as I assume a lot of the theories will be helpful with all our children.

What has irked me the most is the way it was dropped upon us in a 10 min slot, with hardly any good examples and then she kept looking at her clock as the next parents were coming in - it felt really unprofessional.

Can I ask what adjustments were made for your daughter? They only suggested to us yesterday more breaks in the exam (which we declined, as the min she has a break she needs more prompting to start her work!). As for tests, she doesn't need extra time either as she can do her work quite quickly.

I will do some more reading over the Easter break on what else we can do to help her not fidget in class...

I think you need to consider your own internal ableism here OP. I have combined ADHD and your daughter sounds a lot like me at that age. Unfortunately it was not picked up and had a major effect on my life in later years. Being neuro divergent and getting a diagnosis when young can be a huge difference in how it impacts you later.

If your brother is ND, it is even more likely because it is genetic and if you have found ways to manage at home you might even consider that you are naturally doing things to manage without even knowing you are. For example - sitting with her because she can't handle a difficult assignment - that is an adjustment because with ADHD there is a real struggle to start a task of you don't think you will be able to get it perfect straight away. Being top of her class and able to pick things up quickly but struggling with a tricky task is such a classic sign and one of the problems is that at some point the cleverness or quick thinking will not be able to make up for the struggles to study or procrastination.

I would really encourage you to research inattentive ADHD in girls because this is such a golden opportunity to get support for your daughter.

DD2 did her SATs in a quiet room with a staff member allocated to gently prod her back onto task when her brain went skipping off on a tangent - had extra time but she's another where rest breaks as formal things would just mean she never got back to it!

But yesterday the SEND coordinator did suggest medication - to help her finish a book - which I think is why I am so irked. She reads every evening, she doesn't watch TV and always doing some really lovely art project in her free time.

If our GP is saying she won't send her forward for an assessment - I am really at a loss besides doing some reading on it myself to see how we can help her not fidget in class.

That's not how meds work with ADHD at all.

So sorry to hear this. That is absolutely ridiculous.

At the end of each school year, we send an email to the school praising the teachers and the wonderful things they have done. Our kids have been so lucky to have an incredible education and LOVE being at school and have always loved their teachers and topics.

Medication to finish a book! - head-in-hands! And this for an avid reader. So wrong.

The aim of reading is not to finish a particular book (and tick a box) but to develop a life skill at a speed appropriate to each person.