AIBU to be fed up with colleagues repeatedly off sick?

[IngridsLittleToe]

I'm going to get my arse handed to me and I don't care. Sick staff....I'm so over feeling sympathetic. I'm not talking really sick staff...I'm talking repeated back ache/gynae problems/migraine/back ache/sore throat/cold/depression/back ache/sinusitis/cold/sore big toe....

They have been on repeated sickness absence management and pull it back from the brink each time. Only to start all over again. Years and years of this. The rest of the team have to pick up the pieces, cancel their jobs to cover someone else's and the sickie doesn't have any loyalty at all.

The whole time they are sick they manage to socialise and do a voluntary role. Any attempt to manage the sickness is met with claims of bullying and then they go sick with anxiety.

All on full pay.

AIBU to think they are shamelessly playing the system and should be sacked

It’s exhausting for managers too. It’s so hard to manage out on absence because of disability laws. Especially when oc health come back with ‘may be covered under disability act’. Businesses don’t want to tread on that.

Offer them a promotion into another department ;)

Or more seriously implement some metrics that are unarguable and get your team up to speed so everyone meets them.

When the person next returns pair them with an experienced member of staff and pro-rata the metrics.

Do this on day one so they have to take reduced pay leave. Do the same time every time they return. Firm but helpful. Eventually they will either run out of paid leave entirely or have to work.

If they don't meet metrics in first two weeks ask them what extra support they need and set a clear goal to reach this in two more weeks.

Then start capability process with an aim to complete before they are able to take sickness paid again.

Either they will improve or you will have clear evidence you need to shift them.

In parallel mention to your department head if they agree with metrics approach and will back you up to make sure everyone including returner meets this. Mention previous performance and sickness and your concern over team performance as you are effectively one down.

If head will not back you up, then suggest another team might be the best for the returning staff and ask for a back fill

The thing that really gets my goat is in my experience, the pisstakers are constantly on the lookout for an opportunity to manufacture an excuse to accuse colleagues of bullying them, so they can go off sick again. In her first month back after months off, our one reported a new colleague to management for "bullying" her. The new lady was very shy, had been there less than a fortnight, and it wasn't her doing the bullying. It was absolutely the pisstaker who was bullying the new starter!

“Most heavily overworked”? Behave.

Funny how workers in the City, some of whom pull 100-hour weeks, never seem to go off sick repeatedly for months at a time. Those who burn out leave, they don’t string their employer along for years, taking sick leave then returning and going off sick again.

OP, you have my sympathy, I hope you’re able to manage this person out. I can’t imagine what it’s doing to team morale.

You should of course be off on sick leave then, it sounds awful and you have my sympathy. Ditto the poster earlier with the genuine gynae issues. No-one is saying no-one should ever be off sick.

It's just that there's a few people who you can be pretty certain are taking the piss.

However, given the choice, I'd rather put up with the piss takers and have a good sick leave policy for those who need it, than have neither.

YANBU, but all the people on here who are also piss takers and skivers will be on to have a go.

"Sick staff....I'm so over feeling sympathetic"

the thing is @IngridsLittleToe it is completely, outwith your control, don't make yourself ill by worrying about it.

It is more important for your mental health not to give a shiny.

Cf's are everywhere. If management are ineffective, then that's their failing.

Let it go, you are not paying their salary, they're just playing the system

This is a common theme in the NHS and local government and it’s wrong!
if people are genuinely poorly then that’s understandable but there is an awful lot of this going on!

She knows how to work the system

It’s absolutely awful. It’s HR policies not management that allow piss takers.

It creates such low morale for management and team, the endless admin, covering shifts etc

Not everyone is playing the system. I was trying to leave an abusive relationship for almost two years. The stress and trauma led to me experiencing high levels of anxiety, panic disorder, migraine, insomnia, back issues and a weakened immune system plus bereavement when the divorce happened to I ended up having a lot of time off - roughly 8 weeks in short periods. I simply could not work.

Ooooh I do hear you? Are you one of my colleagues??? I am so bloody over it too and how unbelievably hard it is for managers to effectively deal with this.

people say don’t cancel your work for theirs… this is a lot easier said than done in some sectors.

DH and I run a small business (no HR), and had to manage out an employee who was completely taking the piss with ongoing absences that as a small business was having a major impact on productivity. ACAS didn't want to know or support us, and the business insurance went through a company called Croner who basically just wanted to extort money out of you/were as helpful as a wet paper bag. We ended up having to use a specialist employment solicitor and it cost us nearly £10k to do the process legally and dotting the i's/crossing the t's. It was almost enough to put us off ever employing anyone else.

If you're off sick for whatever reason on a regular basis, you are a liability to any business, public sector or private. And your colleagues will resent you.

@IngridsLittleToe totally agree.
@Besidemyselfwithworry - I also have extensive NHS experience of this. One particular nurse specialist who hardly did a full shift for about a year before each parent died (taking them to hospital etc but always made sure she was on duty when there were appointments or solicitors’ meetings - when the 12 hour shift pattern meant she could have as many as 4 weekdays off), then the full 6 months to the day after each of them died. Then back on a phased return each time whilst still accruing annual leave so was due maybe a full month annual leave. Comes back very part time to a full time post for just long enough to wipe the slate clean then goes off for 6 months (on full pay which includes nights and weekends enhancements), back the day half pay starts, phased return, takes accrued annual leave ……rinse and repeat.

This woman is clearing £3200 a month and has probably worked no more than 2 days a month (should be doing 13 days a month) for about 4 years now. She’s in a specialist role so there is no one to back fill. Other team members getting really pissed off at the extra work so other sickness in the team rises.

I know people will come at me saying “everyone grieves differently”, “you don’t know how much she’s suffering” etc - but I know her very well in and out of work and I know she is playing the system. She as good as admits it and when other people complain about how stress they are, her answer is “go off sick”.

It’s so selfish and the NHS absence policy needs an overhaul. It’s almost impossible to get rid of someone on the NHS (unless they steal or something) as management is typically weak and risk averse. I wonder how these managers feel if their work was directly impacted.

Well it's been a great vent and also obvious that many totally recognise this behaviour. I'm not talking migraine that makes you vomit or gynae issues or many other complex illnesses.

I think my main point is that as managers we do see through the shirkers. We see the genuinely committed sick, disabled and struggling and we support because HR is about developing a team. BUT some people are very committed to being absent just within the limit of being got rid. They exploit the generous sick pay which is something I'm very glad we have to offer people who are having ill health. It's bad enough being sick without financial stress.

But the obvious pattern and it is fucking obvious of absence-> absence -> stage 1 >>> absence >>>>stage 2 >>>> suddenly better/claims bullying/work related stress >>>>> phased return>>>>absence >>>>> reaching 5.5. Months or stage 3 = "thank the Lord I am recovered"
Until the next time

I'd forgotten the sick note I worked with would come back after 6 months and literally be booking all her annual leave in during her first day back! The absolute fuck you attitude to the rest of the team who'd all pulled together and worked extra was astounding.

I've had the opposite from work. I suffered with epilepsy (newly) and they told me to take a month (manager outside of where I was working, so big boss and I did as I was told). Then I had to get the bus and train to work (lost my licence) and they changed my hours to fit in with the train. Then I couldn't move properly (as also had Multiple Sclerosis) and this boss kept telling me to take time off. Doubt he would if I had a broken toe. I mean it's nice and all but it wasnt asked for.

I feel you. Every workplace I've ever worked has at least one. From reading this it's more common than I realised!

Where I worked they finally managed someone out, their attendance over the 20 years was at 40%. They worked part time to ensure their salary was topped up lived in a council house via parents, drove around and parked using Mum’s blue badge.

The kicker was that they constantly makes about benefit scroungers 😂😂😂😂😂

I am party to medical notes....all of which are self claimed illnesses...neither proven or unproven.

what the hell are "self-claimed illnesses"? Past the Self Certification period, the employee has to go to their GP to receive a diagnosis for their ailment and the Fitnote is issued by the medical professional, on the basis of their expert opinion of the illness and the need for the patient to take time off. There is nothing self-claimed about it.

how do you even know what the conversation was between GP and patient, are you omnipresent?

this thread is full of unvalidated hear-say and made up nonsense.

Oh and I have had sick elderly parents, an exhausting caring commitment, an abusive marriage, divorce, single parent and chronic ill health.

But I'm paid to work and work has kept a roof over my head and I keep up my end of the deal.

We have flexed for staff and they have flexed for me. Life happens.

It's always one person whose only flex is for themself

noone is talking about genuine sick leave

Guess we found the boot licker too ;)

The usual suspects are off sick for no good reason and other colleagues are left to carry their workload.

Another one promoting and glamourising overworking and burning out for whose benefit? Most people don’t ‘leave’ because in case you haven’t noticed the market isn’t handing out jobs. Stop normalising toxic and bully like work environments because they can have fatal consequences for people suffering. Op should be ashamed of themselves for putting someone personak medical issues on this platform for everyone to rip into.