AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

You haven’t explained what this event is or how it is remotely similar to laying out hundreds of prayer mats on the ground and effectively blocking access to a space for any non Muslims.

When you do I will be able to comment.

Afaik there are no other religions that set up in public spaces deliberately blocking people from from walking around on aeroplanes , libraries, blocking roads and other public spaces but feel free to point out any you have come across - I’m always open to new information.

I do have a small, vulnerable child - and wouldn’t have seen this as a threat. I’d have seen it as an annoyance, but not intimidation.

I don’t think pointing out someone is in the incorrect space is discrimination. I couldn’t be bothered personally, but it’s not discriminatory.

Having that problem specifically because of someone’s gender or religion is discrimination. Calling people’s faith performative rituals for sky fairies is discrimination.

Assuming that the unwanted behaviour is specifically because of the gender (any gender) or religion of the person, not just because they happen to be an arsehole, is discrimination.

Implying that your average Muslim wants to murder us into submission is also discrimination.

All of this is fairly average stuff that most intelligent people can understand. We all know what discrimination is, people just forget to apply it to whichever group they’re taking issue with.

@Blueharmonica (I know you also asked)

Tommy Robinson is hosting a “rally” in London in May. Or rather he was, not sure if he is now he’s in America.

The tag line is “one nation, under God,” so the connotation and marketing is that it is at least in some way religious.

That rally will involve blocking roads, transport delays, inconvenience for those who aren’t interested in being Under God.

I would be keen to know, if we are to believe it’s a Christian event and not just an excuse for a shout, if that mass event is also subject to the same scrutiny as Muslims praying.

Surely, if it’s causing inconvenience for those who don’t believe in God, and don’t wish to attend, it’s as frowned upon?

The op asked if it was appropriate for him to be there and most have said no. She didn’t do more than say it wasn’t kid friendly. Perhaps the library will ask people to move when they’re not in the right space given the feedback.

Plus 87% said yanbu so she can be reassured on that too.

Having that problem specifically because of someone’s gender or religion is discrimination.

No it is perfectly lawful and sometimes desirable to discriminate on the basis of sex in many situations because of the behaviour of one particular sex.

Implying that your average Muslim wants to murder us into submission is also discrimination.

Except I didn’t say that so don’t make stuff up.

We all know what discrimination is, people just forget to apply it to whichever group they’re taking issue with.

Yes, you don’t seem to be able to see discrimination based on age.

It has been explained before, the religion of the guy is not really relevant (although it is part of a forming pattern which is a slightly different topic). His sex, unnecessary presence and entitled behaviour in the space IS.

Clue number 1 - it’s a library. I’d complain.

The space was for children, is that the discrimination you are talking about? Against adults?

Nobody has used the term sky fairies other than to accuse other people of using it, nobody has ‘that your average Muslim wants to murder us into submission is also discrimination’. So if it’s not the op and her children, who are you actually accusing of discriminating and who are they discriminating against?

if that mass event is also subject to the same scrutiny as Muslims praying.

I very much doubt that in the current climate. The proposed rally will attract number of violent Palestinian flag waving black
masked people trying to shut it down but the praying will have been left alone whether or not they had proper permission to shut down a public space.

Only in the context of single sex spaces, which a library definitely is not.

The only relevant fact is that someone was in the children’s space without a child, because a library is not a sex specific space so the fact it’s a man isn’t actually relevant.

Had a Muslim woman been praying, or a woman of any religion, that would have been equally as inconvenient and misplaced.

The issue is his age and activity. Making it about anything else is just assumption and prejudice - men aren’t specifically excluded from libraries, and neither are Muslims.

That sounds like a political rally rather than a religious ritual?

You have agreed he shouldn’t be there so what is the issue with the op’s actions?

Why shouldn’t the library act on the feedback should it happen again?

Under God, so whilst I believe that’s likely just a cover for what is really a political event, if we take them at their word that it’s a Christian event - they shouldn’t be closing roads for it, because religion shouldn’t inconvenience?

What is the Christian part of it? The name? Wouldn’t that cover any monotheistic religion rather than just Christianity? If the roads are closed then this is an organised event through the appropriate authorities? Do you think you might be reaching just a bit hard here and looking a bit silly

And if you listen to some orthodox Jews, Christianity isn't necessarily a monotheistic religion!

Yes, exactly the same 'be kind' hive mind. It's so much easier than understanding what's happening and being prepared to deal with it appropriately.

I hope you have the same attitude to the Iftar held in Trafalgar Square yesterday, 'the largest in the west' according to Sadiq Khan.

That’s literally the conversation we’re having.

The last sentence did say exactly that.

I didn’t say it was a single sex space.

Given the crime stats and the fact that it is a children’s space, it is VERY relevant that it is a man. We used to know this.

Had a Muslim woman been praying, or a woman of any religion, that would have been equally as inconvenient and misplaced.

Funnily enough I have never seen any footage of Muslim women doing this, only men. Any idea why that would be?

There was no justification for this person using a public library to pray, especially in the children's area. If it happens again I hope the librarians will have the guts to ask him, politely, to leave.

How would you have responded if it was a female praying, of any religion?

As we’ve established it’s not sex specific space, and it’s just that the activity itself is in the wrong place, would your reaction be as strong?

Are you anti prayer in the wrong place, or anti Muslim/man?

I must be the only poster who finds this quite amusing. I doubt very much it is a common occurrence, maybe a one off. Nobody died.

The Library staff could put up a big notice saying, 'This is a designated area for children's use of the library only'.

YABU. It is Ramadam, so prayer time is strict and adherred to religiously. It is possible the chap was out on appointments that took longer and I doubt there are many mosques in Inverness. He therefore asked if he could have a quiet, East facing spot to pray in the library. Who could possibly refuse without causing offence? As for the woman sleeping. Libraries are designated warm spaces, and maybe she was homeless? Yes, it was inconvenient, but the prayers would not have lasted that long and the sleeping woman could have been asked to move by staff. It sounds like this was during the day, rather than a busy after-school period, so at the time it would have been quiet there.

Is it just during Ramadan we should allow religious rituals in children’s public areas wound you say? Or would that risk ‘causing offence’ and we should just scrap children’s areas?

How do you know he asked for a prayer spot in there? You’re just guessing. Also - learn to spell Ramadan.

Plenty of pp have posted that the mosque is 10 minutes away