AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

Prayer takes two min yabu

Yes. Let's curtail to men. Again.

It’s a particular characteristic type that derives self esteem from virtue signalling and implying others are immoral.

@EasternStandard

That would be the same as you waiting for Tesco to re open after it doesn’t allow you entry for 15 minutes.

That sounds like the very end of the world.

@Blueharmonica

What I mean, because OP actually has left, is that you’re apparently not interested in religion, but are also very interested in religion. Are you unable to just not engage with things you don’t have any interest in?

We also don't have to make everything about misogyny, you know? (Probably also applies to @Annasimon)

I bet. Your example still didn’t work.

It only doesn’t work if you’re the kind of person who wouldn’t see waiting to access Tesco as a mild inconvenience.

You didn’t say you’d close it your example was walking past people.

Whats wrong with @Blueharmonicaresponding to the thread? Of course she can.

So your point is that I’m not interested in religion but interested in people having the option to avoid it? Fair enough.
I don’t really have an interest in micro machines, but if a random man walked into a children’s area, rolled up the play mat, got out some little toy cars and got on the floor making brum brum noises making children uncomfortable …then I’d take an interest. Make sense?

OP was in the library, not locked outside of it. The option to go to another area for a couple of minutes existed.

Whilst I’ve said a few times now, it’s obviously not a convenient or appropriate space for prayer, as an atheist I’d have just thought it was strange, moved myself out the way for a bit and then probably not come to the internet to seek a reaction. Didn’t need the drama.

If you insist on making out like the whole library was out of bounds, as in your “locked out of Tesco for 15mins” analogy. That’s still not the end of the world, just hang on, mutter about the inconvenience, and then go about your day.

Like I said, people are too quick to be offended, and make out like things are a huge drama when really, they’re just a mild inconvenience that don’t matter in the scheme of things.

There's a better place to do those things than in a children's area. Can't you see why?

But people always have the option to stay away from things they don’t like or believe in.

Just stay out the way of it.

If it’s introduced to your space, and you don’t want to pray or play with micro machines, just don’t pray or play with micro machines.

Surely that’s easier than demanding things you don’t like are never in your vicinity?

Why wouldn’t you reverse this and the man stays away? There’s an area for children.

Would you say to someone in a wheelchair to just give up their space and wait too?

Would you say just stay out the way of it to them?

Yes, and the same arguments that are used to justify men in female only spaces. We all know where that has ended up.

It does seem like this race to the bottom driven by a mindset of “I am more tolerant than thou, therefore I Am A Good Person”.

Surely that’s easier than demanding things you don’t like are never in your vicinity?

Well exactly, now you’re getting it…that’s why there is an allocated area for the children in the library. That’s why there are allocated buildings for performative supernatural rituals and I don’t know about the micro machines but I’m sure there is an appropriate space for men to do that. The problem would be when a man wants to play with his micro machines in a childrens area or a flamenco dancing group wants to perform in a religious building during a ritual.

Are you suggesting children are the same as disabled people? Bold take.

I happen to have a disabled child, who has to either move or wait quite regularly. People using disabled spaces because they don’t fancy the walk to the shop, or using disabled toilets because they’re convenience.

I have never yet made a scene, complained to the building owner, or started a thread about it on Mumsnet.

We teach him the valuable lesson of waiting, use the facility we need, and move on. Bigger things to worry about!

He should have stayed away, however he was already there. Moment to stay away has passed. For me the most sensible thing to do with that is to just get on with it, for those few (fairly irrelevant) minutes.

Spaces are allocated for a reason. I’m wondering which groups you will say wait to if a religious man decides to take it over.

Why do you want him particularly to be the one to make others wait?

Why couldn’t your response be he should be mindful of the space and others?

I believe the pp has long forgotten what her argument was.

I think maybe so. I was just thinking these threads always prioritise a religious man in this situation (not all religions of course, some will be mocked). Why is that?

He should have been… except he wasn’t. He already wasn’t being mindful of the space when OP arrived.

But that’s not how life works. Sometimes people do things they shouldn’t, and sometimes that means we have to wait for things.

I don’t particularly want it to be a religious male?

When we have to wait, it’s actually usually because of a woman, using a disabled space in a car park or taking her perfectly able child to the disabled toilet. Shall I yell at her for being in the wrong space, as she has after all “invaded” my child’s space. Or just do the normal thing of waiting and then using it after she’s done?

If I can teach a disabled 9 year old to just hang on, I’m sure grown ups can make it work.

It’s the ridiculous identity politics ranking system. Obviously when challenged with common sense, you see it quickly fall apart which is probably why some people would prefer not to be challenged on it and try and shut down the discussion by insinuating bigotry or racism ….or even support laws that shut discussion before it even start.

And people start threads on mn in the hope people leave spaces not for them alone.

Most agree it makes sense and consensus builds. People are more mindful about what they use. It’s better than everyone saying yeh it’s fine, just stay out of the way of it, as you have on this thread.

No, he should not be there. He has other places he can pray in, his house for example or the building specially designed for prayer. If he knows he has to pray at a certain time he takes account of that when planning his day. What he doesn't do is give a performance in the local library. As far as I'm concerned that's what it is. Performative.
And, as sad as it is, the person sleeping should have moved on too. I know libraries can be boring but falling asleep there isn't on either. I would have asked the person if they were unwell, as an opener.

Like I said, people are too quick to be offended, and make out like things are a huge drama when really, they’re just a mild inconvenience that don’t matter in the scheme of things.

I think my summary of the mindset operating here was correct. “Let’s just be a bit more tolerant” is a reasonable ask in many circumstances. But those asking are very selective in who is expected to provide the tolerance.

The trouble is, this isn’t a random or isolated incident. There are clips from many countries where performative mass praying is stopping the traffic or taking over a public space. There was such an event in Trafalgar Square last night. It is a power play. One that utilises the cover of plausible deniability or justification “oh we were just praying” and defended by those who pride themselves on their extreme tolerance.

The trouble is that they never consider the real issue here - the deliberate encroachment on public spaces by a particular group who also enjoy special protection for even heinous crimes by the government and police, or the impact on the people displaced.

They don’t consider that this is a pattern of stated intent. There are Muslim groups around the country who are quite clear about their intentions to take charge. It is a slow process but a model replicated successfully in several countries including Lebanon and Egypt.

It is enabled by well meaning but ignorant liberals who seem rather selective in the groups they favour. No matter that children are displaced from their space for an unknown length of time, the virtue signallers can berate us for our lack of tolerance and ‘kindness’ and feel good about themselves.