AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

Well yes.
But I am sure the OP could have managed to wait the not many minutes until the man had finished.
This really was no big deal.

Unless I’m missing something, It sounds like the space was allocated to the police to hold a session with local community police for people to discuss local concerns …and not for children.
In your opinion is it being a man or being a Muslim which grants you the right to do as you please to the detriment of at least one woman and children who turned up to use the space for its intended use?

The man could have not used the space intended for children to conduct a religious ritual, no big deal.

I am questioning why you find no issue with unaccompanied men being in children’s spaces for no reason.

I’m not sure anyone has said he is a paedophile - how could we know? But we should certainly be suspicious if any man in a children’s space when he has no valid reason to be there.

Several librarians on this thread have said he would not have been given permission to be there and most normal men would not have wanted to encroach on that sort of area. No library would have a policy allowing this situation so at the very best case it’s a librarian who has no respect for safeguarding rules.

I am quite perturbed at the vigour with which some on this thread seek to justify random men spending time in children’s spaces. We used to know what men were like and seek to safeguard children but so many are desperate to undermine this. Why?

Do you know for certain that the man in question wasn’t advised he could use the area, and therefore was in the space allocated to him?

You can’t possibly know that, much of this thread is based on assumption.

Neither. I have said it’s not an appropriate space IMO. However we don’t know that he wasn’t directed to it, and by OPs account it sounds like he left after his prayers.

Shorter than if she’d turned up to the police holding a session in the space designated for children - so that’s better, right?

If you can’t tell the difference between a pre-organised group event and some random bloke rocking up and co opting a space he shouldn’t, that is rather a concern.

Unless of course the specific problem is that it was a man, or rather a Muslim man, and not just that the space is intended for children.

Why should we not have a specific problem with him being a lone man in a child’s space?

Are you aware that 97/98% of all sexual assaults are carried out by men?

We know from other librarians that this wouldn’t have happened so it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that he wasn’t directed to use the kids area
for his ritual.
Even in the extremely unlikely event (based on other librarians opinions) the area was suggested to him, common sense should have told him it was not a suitable place to conduct his practice. He wasn’t forced to take over the kids area was he?

Honestly the mental gymnastics required to get to a position where this is ok is worthy of a place on the Olympic squad.

We know for certain a man was conducting a mystical supernatural ritual in a space reserved for children.

We know the police held a session with local community police for people to discuss local concerns.

One is the intended use of the space and one is not. I don’t know why you’re struggling to understand basic respect for others within public spaces.

Are you suggesting that a librarian ignored normal safeguarding policy and told a random bloke he could co opt the children’s area for his prayers while children turned up to use the area?

I’m sure that will come out when the library investigate OPs complaint and I hope an appropriate safeguarding course is recommended for the librarian. I think the likelihood of your theory being correct is very low.

Is your reading okay?

I have said, multiple times now - it’s not the appropriate place for prayer. A private room, mosque or home would be much more appropriate.

That however is where that ends.

We don’t need the hyperbolic chat about whether he’s actually a sex offender, when what he did was pray and then leave.

We don’t need to question his motives - he prayed and left, his motive was prayer.

We don’t need to “man taking over child’s space because of misogyny,” because really we don’t know that he was sticking the proverbial middle finger up at woman he children - we do know that he was praying.

You’re half right, it’s more that the mental gymnastics some people will go through to make “man praying” into “man may be sex pest,” would qualify for the Olympics.

Are you aware that he prayed and left, and didn’t in fact attack anyone?

We don’t need to turn things into things they’re not.

Sometimes, it’s just “man made stupid/shit choice” and not “man had an ulterior suspicious motive.”

We don’t have to conduct such leaps all of the time.

ETA - OP “left the library, and told the staff politely, she didn’t find it kid friendly.” She hasn’t complained. There’s no investigation.

I have said, multiple times now - it’s not the appropriate place for prayer. A private room, mosque or home would be much more appropriate.

So what was he doing in the children’s part of the library?

You’re half right, it’s more that the mental gymnastics some people will go through to make “man praying” into “man may be sex pest,” would qualify for the Olympics.

I can’t believe you are saying this and actually being serious. Are you completely unaware of countless events involving religious men over many many years?

His specific activity here is not relevant. His presence is.

We don’t need to turn things into things they’re not.

Who has done that?

ETA - OP “left the library, and told the staff politely, she didn’t find it kid friendly.” She hasn’t complained. There’s no investigation.

Well hopefully after having this discussion she will return and make a proper complaint so that no more random men are allowed to use the children’s space. Even if she didn’t the library should have investigated why this bloke was there and why he wasn’t chucked out.

We don’t need to question his motives - he prayed and left, his motive was prayer.

Why do you berate other posters for theorising his motives and then do it yourself? He wanted to conduct a religious ritual in a children’s area, so he did.

We absolutely do need to question his motivation re using the kids area. Why there specifically? It’s not normal
on British society to walk into the kids area of a library and start conducting religious rituals.

When a man takes it upon himself to co-opt an area specifically allocated to children for his own purpose without the explicit consent of those around him, it absolutely needs questioning why he chose to act against established social norms.

I think it’s more likely at this point what the proverbial we need to do, is calm down and get over it.

It was days ago, OP hasn’t even been back in days. She mentioned a sleeping woman that she was also bothered by who isn’t getting anywhere near the same level of attention.

He prayed, nobody was harmed, he left.

Should he have been there? No.

Is it worth any huge detailed interrogation? Also no.

My point was there were no children there at that time of day so the space was used for something else.
Had a parent with the children come in they could still access the space - they might have just needed to wait a few minutes until a conversation was finished.

We keep men out, not because all men have nefarious reasons for being in there, but some do. How do you suggest I tell the difference?

He would have been using it for less than ten minutes.

Is it worth any huge detailed interrogation? Also no.

Just so you know, you could have just clicked YANBU

It would have taken less than ten minutes for him to go somewhere else.

Who knows.....the man could have actually been a staff member who thought "there's no one in the kids section... I'll just nip in there" 🤷
What would the OP have done if he wasn't praying and was just....shock horror....a man who had gone in there to choose some books for his own children (or just wanted to read some children's novels - some adults do and was picking some out).
Would the OP have refused to take her children in there because there was a lone adult male in there or is it actually the prayer she's moaning about.
You know what.... I doubt the man would have even cared if she and her children had come and looked at the books while he prayed.
She was the one who decided not to.

Maybe, maybe not.
I don't know the layout of that particular library.
If he was a staff member there might be a requirement to have a certain amount of staff on the floor so he couldn't go to the staffroom but said to his colleagues "it's quiet so I'll nip in there and do my prayer but if there's an emergency just come grab me".
Who knows?
The OP didn't bother to find out.

It is definitely worth some detailed conversation as some PPs clearly have no idea that it is a safeguarding risk to allow random blokes to hang out in children’s areas.

The idea of safeguarding policies is prevention of harm, not just a sigh of relief that no harm has occurred after the event.

You don’t know how long he was in there.