AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

You can borrow children’s books, in general - there are often differences in rules between different regions - but you’d still need to pay fines if applicable. That’s determined by your ticket, not what you borrow.

Christianity is a ‘foreign religion’, unless you’re in the Middle East. We still can’t shop for more than 6 hours on a Sunday because of Christianity, and we have bank holidays which are observed on Christian religious holidays. So no, we aren’t a predominantly secular society. No such arrangement has been made for other religions on their holidays, so we haven’t treated them equally to Christianity. If we are a predominantly secular society, and that’s what you want, I take it you are equally opposed to any use of the library by children making Easter or Christmas decorations, and are very vocal about the need to remove the bank holidays from Christian religious holidays?

YANBU. It’s a designated space for children. They could easily have gone elsewhere in the library. The man wanting to pray could have asked the librarian beforehand for a quiet space to do this. Like you said, there are so many children in poverty and they have as much right (if not more imo) to have access to a safe, warm space with books etc. It’s not fair for them to be denied this by two adults sleeping and praying.
I would definitely get in touch with the LA about this.
It’s not appropriate at all.

Oh yes, I totally agree. It wouldn't enter my head to complain or expext action. I still think they could sit in the adult section though.

I doubt anyone told him to go and pray in the children's library

That comment makes no sense

Last sentence sums you up.

There was no reason or justification for him praying in the children’s area.

There have been a number of ‘public praying’ events in Western countries. Mass events stopping traffic on public roads or taking over public spaces. It is a display of power. The people doing this know that no one in charge dares to challenge them.

If we continue to turn a blind eye this encroachment and entitlement will only get worse. And then the new definition of ‘anti Muslim’ hate crimes will stop us from even complaining.

You are far too cunning to understand anything explained to you. Enjoy.

If an adult is moving around the children's area picking out books to borrow then of course that is okay. The issue is when a lone adult settles down in this space and it becomes obvious they don't have a child with them.

Doing research? In our libraries junior sections have small child sized tables and chairs, along with sofas and bean bags, and the PCs are set so they can only be accessed with a child ticket. There aren't study spaces which would work for an adult so you would have to take the books you were looking at to a more suitable area.

You personally may not see a need for it, but it exists.

Why is it an issue if a lone adult 'settles down' in this space? Maybe they like the atmosphere. Maybe they just want to sit down for a while. The idea that a lone adult is a problem is just weird.

It's against the by laws of the library to sleep there. Staff should be waking the person up and asking them to move out of the children's area

The prayer one is tricky, as often people are looking for a quiet spot to do prayers and it may have been they were given permission to use that area if it was empty at the time.

Adults in children's areas is not appropriate and shouldn't be happening if there is an alternative

What does 'appropriate' mean here?

To repeat what I said upthread..I doubt the man was given permission to pray in the Children's section. I find this more unlikely than the original post that he was doing this.

To be perfectly honest , libraries attract some people, that just should not be in the children's library.

What? I do wonder what goes through some people's minds.

What does that mean?

Appropriate (adjective) means suitable or proper for a particular situation, purpose, or person.

Monopolising a public area designated for children by a random man to perform a strange supernatural worship ritual would fit this definition. It’s not really practical to write an explicit list of everything that people shouldn’t do, designating it a children’s area seem to work on the whole as people generally have common sense and respect for others. Now when people ask things like well does that mean that lone men can’t go in there and read children’s books, you do begin to question their motives. Are people against children having a designated area in libraries or somethin? Is the other 98% of the library not enough for lone men?

You can be a Pollyanna all you like, but actually I think you're just being deliberately disingenuous: a lone man wants to park himself in the children's library because he 'likes the atmosphere'? Yes, of course he does. There are plenty of other places in the library for adults if they just want to sit down for a while.

We have an exclusions and warnings list of banned customers as long as your arm. There are a lot of unpleasant people out there and unfortunately large city libraries don't always attract people who love reading or enjoy hanging around children just for the joy of it.

I do understand about unaccompanied adults settling down in the children's area. That can be inappropriate for reasons of space or safeguarding.

I think one of the librarians upthread said unaccompanied adults weren't allowed in there, and remembered when I recently tried to look round the childrens area of a library the librarian followed me in, so I went straight out and to the adult fiction area, and she followed me out, all in under a minute. It was clear she'd gone in because I did. There was nobody else in the library at all.
More recently I went in and there were others about but none in the children's area and the librarian was on the phone, so I was able to go in and choose a book, which I then took to the adult fiction area to start reading.

we are inherently designed to spot things out of place - I lone man picking an area designed to attract children for some performative prayer (and such prayer is designed to be performative for several reasons -an omniscient god would hear even the most silent and still prayer) is out of place esp in the UK. Why the children’s area??? Why not the loos or the supermarket or the street. It’s even worse than drag story time.

Libraries are secular buildings. They are for everyone- not for someone to self designate the area for a religious ritual. I would have taped him on the shoulder and informed him of such. I find his choice of prayer venue aggressive and concerning. We should legislate against this kind of thing

The thing is, you know damn well that if a Catholic priest did the same thing, the sane people defending this man would be up on arms (rightly) questioning his motives.somehow people have been brainwashed into this tow tier double think. People need to seriously start questioning why they think like they do

Yanbu

a lone man taking up space and being exabisionist in the children area is not ok. Libraries have quiet room/meeting rooms why did he not ask to use one of those ? Same for the sleeping woman not ok in children area.

I don’t think it’s racist to say it’s not appropriate. Our local library currently has Ramadan themed colouring, if they put on a children learning event that would be appropriate. They had story telling and crafts in the children section for dwali, literally no space to actually get to the books or sit and read- completely appropriate because it was child focused activities and for them to learn. Same as the singing sessions they do for toddlers. Might be annoying but not inappropriate.

single man moving the mat so he can pray loudly is not child focused and not appropriate

That makes absolutely no sense Catholics are not required to say particular prayers that involve a ritual of physical movements five times a day.

Exactly

why does it have to be so in your face

as I said upthread the Pharisee type praying in Luke

he could have prayed quietly facing East on a seat