AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

Children don’t tend to have meetings. They do often pray.

but not using the children’s area. It’s not a “warm space” it’s a library. paid for by local council tax- in the high 200s for me

A book is like a pot of jam - the ideas or the jam are contained in an inanimate format.

A person decides what they do and in what place. They are not confined and they act.

Books do nothing. People have agency.

Knit and natter groups, children’s storytelling groups, book clubs - all taking over the space so others can’t use it at that moment. All things that anyone can join in if they want.

If you wanted to join the individual in prayer I’m sure they would have welcomed you.

Oh believe me lots of people care. There are threads everyday with faux naive questions about seemingly mundane issues, but there's always that underlying over arching theme of "they are trying to take over".

What on earth are you talking about? This was an adult praying - not a child. Of course kids have meetings - there is often story groups in the library kids area.

Nobody has referenced race at all.

Don't lets facts get in the way the chance for a bit of wokeness!

It's inappropriate, but so are the mums who sprawl themselves out on the floor blocking children from accessing the shelves, chatting and ignoring their own children. In this instance, I think the man should have asked if their was an unused room he could use for ten minutes.

I agree it was inappropriate and should not be permitted to disrupt the childrens area. However I do think it's a leap to assume anyone doing this is doing it to intimidate. Many people would not be aware that their behaviour is socially odd and would not consider it a performance. I can think this, whilst also feeling that it was not ok given the circumstances. I would say the same for any type of prayer in a public children's space which has a specific other purpose

Agree there is a time and place. Prayer seems to trump every single thing for some Muslims - 20 yrs ago when I was mid pregnancy my midwife thought there may be a problem so I was sent to hospital. While sat in the waiting room a Muslim lady was pretty much carried in by two men, she was in significant pain and spoke no English. Their first question to medical staff, before even helping her to a bed/chair or booking her in was “where can we go to pray” and off they went leaving a relative in agony with no or little English. Seems extraordinary to me as a non practicing atheist!

We stopped going to the library as it became the hang out for the local drug addled…fortunately our many local charity shops have huge book sections!

If this is true then YANBU but YABU for not having a more direct conversation with the library staff at the time.

All libraries are dedicated ‘warm
spaces’. At least they are in my area. Along with things like youth clubs and other community buildings.

It absolutely is, but people in safe areas don't believe this happens. I come across it frequently in my job/area. If they want to continue praying while I continue using spaces how they were intended to be used whilst singing a cheery song, on they go. But usually they move on.

Chortle.

Am in agreement that this kind of outrage post is probably manufactured. See also the 77th Brigade, the interwebs is rife with all sorts desperate to win our hearts and minds for whatever reason.

But just to throw a feline amongst the avian, recently a certain Tangerine Scream was prayed over by multiple wealthy and powerful evangelical Christian Nationalists, and described as anointed by God in the Oval office as he allegedly leads the righteous in a not Holy / Holy War dependent on one's perspective. Obviously he has started a trend for performative prayer in inappropriate places. It might even be a TikTok challenge by next week.

Me too. It’s like the recent post where a person apparently only had the option of a woman in a niqab or a trans person to carry out her gynaecology appointment. This was taken down by MN as it was fake. It’s all so far fetched and obviously designed to whip up anti-Muslim rhetoric, and as is evident from the comments on here, it works.

Maybe he asked if there was a space he could pray quietly and was told that corner?

in my experience people usually do ask where they can use without being a disturbance.

no idea about the sleeping

🎯

I imagine if the fellow wanted a place to pray he could have prayed by the
"Advanced claymore sharpening, trans for hard men, or alternatively Deer disemboweling for the Lesbi-feminist collective" no, he chose the children area.

Having read a lot about islam and prayer schedules, there is a usually wide window in which one can pray. Say between sunrise and midday for an example. You are not required to pray at the stroke of eleven or will turn into a stone if you miss it by one minute. Most reasonable Muslims appreciate this. A few, the " we'll do what we goddam want, make Saudi great again" and especially their "Allies" are the ones push, pushing.

This has reminded me when I was in university I asked the university librarian if I could book one of the study rooms for five minutes to pray. There were at least 3 that were free, she said no and told me to pray in the library floor.

I think elsewhere in the library, fair enough- but the kids space should be just for kids. Yanbu

I agree adults shouldn’t be allowed to take over the children’s space in a library. Who they are and the reason they’re doing so is irrelevant. Suggest you contact the library to point this out.

I don’t know about Inverness, as Scottish rights are different. But in England (where there’s no right to accommodation for many people who are homeless) a lot of the (discretionary) provision (e.g. hostels) is hellish - lots of v traumatised people with unmet support needs. And mixed hostels can feel unsafe for women, especially survivors of male violence. Women also feel even more unsafe bedding down on the streets. So they often stay awake at night and try to sleep in public places in the daytime.

Cuts to housing, housing benefit, support services and local authorities from 2010 (still ongoing) have created record homelessness and many hostels, day centres, women’s refuges and public spaces (like libraries and community centres) have closed. Putting even more pressure on those that are left. Libraries can be one of the last peaceful and safe havens. They shouldn’t be. But lots of voters don’t want money spent on these things again. So they are. It’s what happens. The way to tackle it is for voters to demand adequate housing, social security and increased investment in public services/spaces.

If there were no kids in the kids’ section before you arrived, maybe the praying man and sleeping woman thought it’d be OK to use the kids’ section - and maybe the library staff didn’t mind. But as soon as someone arrives with kids, they should move - or be asked to move. If it’s a big library, surely they should provide a prayer room, especially during Ramadan.

Nothing is wrong with them in areas designated for prayer and rest or areas open to all. But to take over a children's section, which is typically the noisiest, liveliest area of the library is inappropriate.

I’m quite surprised the floor of a library met the hygiene requirements for Muslim prayer.

Can’t see what’s intimidating or unsettling about it, even if it was an inconvenience for a few minutes.

Are you unsettled by Christian prayer, or just the Islamic kind? Had he knelt down and belted out the Lords Prayer, would this thread still exist?

Because it is taking up space in the children’s area of a library and the praying stops them using the reading mat. Would it be ok for me to walk into a restaurant and start doing yoga?