AIBU to question praying and sleeping in the library kids area?

[sunshine240778474]

Yesterday I took the kids to the local library (Inverness, scotland). The local library has a kids area. The kids area has a nice artificial grass mat for the kids to sit and read their books on.

When I entered the library there was a man who had folded the kids mat over so he could kneel on the floor and pray to Allah.

Therefore this prevented the kids from sitting on the mat and reading their books.
The man was praying for a while.

I don't have a problem with someone praying if that's what they want to do.

Is it appropriate to be doing it in the kids area in a local library?

Also, there was a woman curled up in the corner of the library sleeping. This was also in the kids area.

I've seen people sleeping in the library on a few occasions now. I've never seen it in the kids' area.

Ofcourse, I feel sorry for her if she's tired, but again is it appropriate to be using the local library, especially the kids area, as a shelter?

I left the library, and told the staff politely, I didn't find it kid friendly.

Was I being unreasonable?

Muslim parents in the children's section with their children is fine..nobody said it wasn't.

The staff were not doing their job, the library should be welcoming for everyone, but neither of those activities was appropriate. However I can understand that dealing with it would be difficult. The general public don't realise that working in a library sometimes entails being a cross between a teacher, a bouncer and a mental heath worker. Knowing where the more appropriate places in the town for people to go would have been useful.

Assuming It happened, would it make a difference if it were a woman who was praying? I'm sort of confused how it was loud because that's not how the prayers typically are prayed.

Council libraries are, and have been for years now, multi use buildings where adults are encouraged to go, as safe spaces, warm spaces, to be open to all. They are very much the unofficial alternative to day shelters, places for lonely people to go, places for the homeless or mentally ill to go.

Spot on, @Birdsongisangry . A dear friend was the director of libraries for my county several years, and I have several friends who are ex-librarians. They put in a lot of effort to make libraries more accessible, welcoming and multi-functional. None of them would have batted an eye at someone praying in a library.

Well yes but girls reading isn’t tolerated in some countries, so not sure what other countries allow is a helpful line of argument.

I think the library staff should have moved them to a different area. It’s a hard balance for them to get right. Our local library is one of the few free spaces available during the day for homeless to keep warm and the do use it a lot. I wouldn’t report someone sitting quietly in the adult section, they have as much right as anyone else. But I do think the children’s area is not the appropriate place for a nap. Likewise the man praying. His religion is irrelevant really. It wouldn’t matter if it was a budist yoga session or a catholic loudly doing the rosary. It’s that it made the space unusable for its purpose that is the issue. Library staff could have found a better spot for him without stopping him entirely. So I would be a bit more assertive with staff next time and ask them politely to please go and speak to them as your child would like to read some books.

You're asking someone else this question, however as the OP is in Inverness, and I'm also from Scotland, I shall intervene.

In case you weren't aware, Scottish people make up the majority in Scotland (thus naturally our culture will, as it should, take precedence). We have quite a distinct culture, both literature and education are valued in our culture, as are the rights of children. This grown man's wholly selfish behaviour in a space designated for children is entirely alien to me too; he simply shouldn't have been there.

Is that a good enough explanation of my/our culture for you?

Sorry but that part doesn’t make sense. Let’s say it was facing south. South can’t only be in one area- surely you’ve used a compass or map before. It’s a direction! He could have gone anywhere. Picking the kids section is weird

I think praying in a library is fine. However, rearranging the place is not ideal. It depends really …. Was he stopping people using the whole children’s area or just a very small part of it where the mat was? Did he have children with him? Was be less than 5 minutes? If it was a small area of the children’s section and there were plenty of other places for the children to sit, if he had children with him and it was less than 5 minutes, then that is more understandable. If he was alone, made the whole children’s area unusable and was more than 5 minutes, that is very inconsiderate.

Over the last few months, I've noticed an increasing number of posts, both here and on other forums, that are griping about some aspect of Islam that has pissed the author off.

A cynical person might think there's some sort of orchestrated attempt to whip up indignation about Islamic religious practices.

Utterly bizarre isn’t it . Why didn’t he go to a quiet corner somewhere.

Here the homeless are all offered somewhere to sleep by the Salvation Army there is literally a handful of people. So the library for sleep wouldn’t seem an obvious choice here. Perhaps in the day for generals sitting about but usually they are by the shops but you may see 1-2 people max if any at all. But either way, it’s quite noisy actually sometimes- well in the kids section. And one end used to have a cafe. There are often book and craft groups and baby music groups on. Not really somewhere conducive for sleep! And if it was - it would be in the adult section.

Most sensible reply.
OP this would also have put me off. I’d email the library with details of what happened and ask why it is being allowed in a children’s area. I’m familiar with the library, I went there as a child. There are other quiet rooms.

We are far too tolerant of this nonsense. That's how we've ended up where we have.

I've been to known to have a nap in a library, while waiting for homeless clients to turn up to meet me.

The local library service bought some remarkably comfortable chairs in the noughties, and they were very conducive to nodding off.

I really struggle to believe that the staff in Inverness library allow people (plural?) to sleep with their socks and shoes off on a regular basis.

Do you think adults should be doing those things in areas designated for children?

Thanks for posting this, it explains a lot. So many faux-naive questions about some important subject as original post followed by a stream of replies with the same angle, and just a few genuine-sounding posts trying to challenge or discuss the points being made. The ME Conflict board is full of them

If it happens again, don't leave. Tell your child to not trip over the man and discuss and read books as normal. If you using the library as a library disturbs his prayers, that's on him for choosing an inappropriate place to pray. Absolute bellend.

Or carried on around him. I'd have ignored his presence and carried on exactly as I would have done if he wasn't there. 'Right let's choose some books'.

But this is inappropriate and he shouldn’t be doing this as it is a designated area for dc to read

why can’t he sit on a chair quietly and pray in his head, why is he making it a spectacle

I don't think praying is inappropriate in general (pointless but not inappropriate), however, using the children's area for the library preventing children using it seems wrong. If I rocked up with some collegues and chose to have a meeting in the children's area (praying to our capitalist gods), then we would probably be asked to move to an adult area - quite correctly.

Where is that?

This ‘cynical person’ thinks other individuals are in fact bots? Or being manipulated by Bad Actors? Or that Mumsnet users are that organised? Cynical person sounds less cynical than like a conspiracy theorist.

Nobody cares how Muslims are carrying out their religious requirements. We only care when it invades the space of other people who are nothing to do with that religion. You can fast, I will be eating. You can pray, I will be choosing books with my grandchildren. If you are doing anything religious in a space not specifically designated for it then I will ignore you and carry on with my life.

Libraries are dedicated warm spaces - if someone can’t afford to heat their own home they are welcomed in to libraries and other community spaces to get warm.

Perfectly appropriate to be having a nap or praying in a warm space.

I have worked in many different libraries. City centre to tiny village ones. The idea that some posters have that they are for silent reading is just wrong. In order to survive libraries have moved on.

One thing that irks me is the coucil suddenly deciding to designate these as warm spaces.......they always have been! Where elsewhere could you go and sit all day for free, in the warm.

People think libraries are sedate places...but honestly over the years I have seem some astonishing behaviour! Did this scenario happen...it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yes we want to be welcoming for everyone....but in order for that to happen we cannot allow them to be used for any religious or political means. Just look how devisive it is on this thread.

I will add that, in the library by laws..displayed in most libraries....it is actually not allowed anyway.