Faith schools...yeah, im probably being unreasonable, and hypocritical BUT........

[lucyellensmum]

I received a letter from the school i want DD to go to. It is a catholic school. She is christened a catholic, i am a catholic and went to the same school. DD is 2.9 and will be starting school next september.

There are a lot of threads on here berating the hypocrisy (sp) of parents who attend church just to get their child into the best school. So, this school is by far the best local school, by miles!! BUT i genuinely want her to go to a CATHOLIC school. I want her to have religious education, i want it to be catholic and i want her to understand about Jesus and learn all about living a decent christian life. And yes, i do stick to those values just as much as I can. BUT and this is where i suspect i will get flamed. I DON'T GO TO CHURCH.

I dont go to church because, a) we dont get much family time and my DP is not a catholic. b) our priest, love his heart, is the most boring, dull man on the entire planet and c) how can i expect a two year old to sit though a service and be quiet for a whole hour while he witters on about stuff I don't understand. I actually enjoy the catholic mass, but it does go on, he is particularly dull and we stopped going when DD became mobile. She is two young to go off to the childrens liturgy and i quite frankly don't want to go.

SO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>i gets the letter from the school saying because the school has been told they are over subscribing to catholics they are making their admission more strict for catholic children. There is a form for the priest to fill in, it states whether the parents attend church, weekly, monthly, occasionally, never.arrrghhhhhhh. Of course dear old Father K sees straight through all of us and insists we go to church at every bloody opportunity. So, the form has to be filled in by december and returned to the school. I have now been put in a position where i feel like a hypocrit for going to church so my child can attend a faith school. But i AM a catholic, i DO believe in God and i want my child to be raised in the cathloic faith. I just don't want to have to attend church with a bored two year old when quite frankly i could be spending the time better having quality family time and im sure the man upstairs would appreciate that!!!

MAybe she would have had better opportunity to attend if i were a bloody atheist!! The school is oversubscribing to catholics,,,,,,,,,,well the last time i checked, it was a catholic school.

lol Unquietdad.

Sorry but I agreewith custardo. What a load of nonsense. Being a Catholic means going to mass. It's part of the deal. Worshipping. Praying. Having a priest forgiving your sins.
If you can't be assed and have better things to do, tough.

Ok, so next question then.

I can understand why it is important for someone older, who has gone through confirmation, but does it matter for someone of the OP's dd's age?

You can't take communion until you are confirmed can you (obviously I am not catholic so apologies if I am getting this wrong) so why does a child need to attend?

confession is another crucial bit of catholicism.

i dont think the child needs to attend. i think in the OP's case she has no childcare and its all of them or none of them

which to me is wrong - her dh isnt a catholic. but she wants him to go so she can get her dd in the school

clarinsgirl, absolutely, faith should not be a part of school the system

baptismal promise

All faith schools now have to reserve 20% of places for 'local community' kids - new rule. Could you get in under that criteria instead? ie apply as non-catholic?

Not confirmed. That's CofE. Catholcis make their First Communion aged about 7 or 8. COnfirmation is later.

No, communion would be for LEM. Not her DD.

you take communion after your first communion (for me it was at 7yo)

And isn't the whole point of the catholic faith that priests are god's intermediaries on earth? i.e. HE prays for you so you have to go to church or presumably god isn't listening.

Ta again

I think you should find another school. It doesn't sound to me as if you actually practice Catholicism at all, or indeed that you want to. Which is fine! I'm an ex-Catholic atheist myself. Basing your decisions on what you think would make your father happy isn't very sensible IMO. Presumably there are other things that would make your father happy too - are you planning on doing them? I can see that churchgoing was an important part of your life with your dad, and now he is gone you are more conscious of that, but did you bring up your elder daughter as a Catholic?

Make your decisions on what works best for your family. Do you actually want to practice as a Catholic and bring your daughter up in that faith? Do you want to bring her up as a Christian and choose a church that suits you, or put some effort into finding a Catholic service that fits you better (I don't understand that childcare issue as presumably your partner can look after your daughter, and you should have a choice of services on both Saturday and Sunday). What does your partner think about all this - if he thinks your current priest is "spouting shit" are you sure he is going to support your aim of a Catholic upbringing anyway?

We don't go to our actual parish church. We go to another which is nearer and more family-focused.

DH is an anglican, and we and our children alternate between "his" and "my" church.

All concerned are perfectly happy with the arrangement.

Except possibly PIL, but they don't like DH's church much either...

I'm not going to enter the faith school debate, suffice to say my DC attend a faith school.

Practicalities of taking young DC to mass, I can sympathise with. You go, your DP looks after your DD - presumably you have at least two or three masses to choose from? Or pick the most family friendly mass, take crayons, paper, sit and look at books (our church has a little library of picture books to borrow). I know it can be stressful, and even if you have to leave part-way through, at least you have made the effort.

Your 'quality family time' argument is rubbish - it smacks of 'can't be bothered'. If you all go you will be spending quality time together, if you go alone your DD will have quality time with her dad.

I think you should look at others schools too. If the school is over subscribed why should a genuine catholic miss out on a place?

I dont buy the argument that its because you want your daughter to be raised in the catholic faith - slightly convenient that the school is the best locally.

Based on the fact that your other child didnt go to a catholic school, your DP doesnt support the faith, you dont go to church I'd say you just want a place at the best school rather than want it for true religious beliefs.

Church with a 2 year old may be difficult but hundreds of families do it, take her a book or crayons etc. You also have the option for leaving her with DP so not good enough excuses for non attendance really.

As for missing out on family time, you're a SAHM - surely an hour a week is nothing in the grand scale of things if you truly want to raise your DD as a catholic.

Having just read the first few posts, just wanted to say that I've had to go to mass with 3 under 4. My DC are now 12, 9 and 8 and go to a catholic school, well, the 2 youngest do, DD goes to a girl's grammar school. We're all catholic (DH too) and we've been going through the mass thing for years with all three in tow and yes at times it has been hell (no pun intended.) But it's what you have to do. If, like ours, this catholic primary is the best school by far for miles, then it's worth it. Hard work, but worth it. I haven't regretted it and frankly wouldn't really consider any of the other local primaries for my DC.

Do it. You'll regret it if you send her to another, not as good school, and you keep hearing about how good the catholic school is.

OK, so i know i am being unreasonable - i admitted that from the start. Some interesting responses here and I AM going to looking to the liturgy thing and see about taking DD. Those of you who have said that i can't have cake and eat it are right.

There are a few comments id like to pick up on, and either challenge or explain my position on.

Happymummyofone, i AM a genuine catholic, just not a practising one at this moment in time. I was however brought up as a catholic and i strongly believe that if you are brought up in this faith, it never leaves you. Not really. That i suppose is a different issue though. I will always consider myself a catholic, even if i never set foot in a church again.

A couple of you have raised the issue about me not sending DD1 to a faith school. I did send her to a church of england primary school, however that is by the by. I deeply regret not sending her to the catholic school. I didn't send her because i was a young mum, with a bee in my bonnet about being a single parent. So, i think that is possibly part of the reason i really want DD2 to attend. A lot of it is tied up with my father yes. I feel he would have wanted DD to attend this school and this helps me with an emotional connection with him. He died before he ever met DD and i feel that this way, he will have some positive influence on her life.

I went to this school, which when i was there was run by nuns (scary!). I then went to a catholic comprehensive. There have been a few posts on here that have suggested that if i send her to a catholic school i am sending her into a woman hating religeon, im a little about that for the reason that, actually, despite going to catholic schools, going to church every sunday, until i started secondary school, i came away with a very light understanding of the catholic religeon. I don't remember any of it being heavy and imposing. Most of it was all warm and fuzzy! Im not explaining this very well really.

I do have some MASSIVE issues with the catholic church and this causes me a lot of personal consternation (if thats the right word). I do think there is an element of mysogeny there. But i can't help but be deeply offended if anyone else suggests it The whole contraception thing makes me want to weep, and if i read too much into it all i would probably renounce my faith entirely. But the part of me that wants to belong, wants to feel looked after and wants to believe that there is a Holy Trinity is much stronger. Wishful thinking? maybe - who knows.

I sit in mass sometimes and seethe, the whole waffling nonsense of it all. Then we have visiting missionarys and i can see that the catholic church still has much to offer the world.

I told you not to get me started!

I am surprised actually that there haven't been more postors who agree with me, even though i recognise im being unreasonable. I think i needed to type it out loud as it were. Mabye, being catholics, they probably felt too guilty to admit that going to church CAN be like pulling teeth sometimes.

The person who said there is more to church than the readings is right, i like all the sacrements and im loving the hymns, if only our preist were to chose some that we actually know. Honestly, its embarrasing, quite a packed church but just a few old dears singining because no one has a clue what hymn he has chosen this timie

Just anothe curve ball to throw at you all - I am not married!!! Does that mean i don't have a right to a catholic education for my child? Just wondered how people felt about this?

My preist is a pain in the arse keep pestering us into getting married and that was part of the reason we stopped going to church. We have both agreed that we dont want to get married. For me i could only ever marry and church and DP does not believe so that would make it invalid imo. It does seem to cause my preist some extra grey hairs, but it aint gonna happen anytime soon.

How about asking at the church about a creche, and if there isn't one, starting one? Do you know any of the other mums at the church? There must be a family service or a creche or something. Some churches just have a bit at the back with books and quiet toys. I would try it for a couple of Sundays, and talk to your Father about how hard it is. Even if you have to take her out a couple of times for a walk around, she could settle down. (I know she's two -- I know that's rather hopeful ) but seriously think about the creche thing.

Lucyellensmum - isn't there children's liturgy at your church? My children (8, 5 and 11 months) love to go during mass.

Failing that, i stand at the back of our church whilst the baby potters about. Nobody minds - they love to talk/coo to her

Phew it's a tricky one.

I was raised a catholic (on my mum's side) my dad did the lessons to marry in the catholic church. I went to a convent primary school did first holy communion.

My mum never really pressed the point, I went to a secular secondary school, discovered science and athieism (sp?).

But like LEM says, even if you stop believing, catholicism is a part of you. When people ask what religion I am, I say I am an athiest, but I used to be a catholic. I don't know why I say that but I do, for some reason I feel a sense of pride that catholicism is my background. Weird.

A lot of my friends are practicing catholics and as far as I can tell they have shopped around for child friendly churches/ones which do shorter children's services. It's difficult though, I know that my church never had a sunday school, I had to sit through mass aged 2, no wonder I went off it!

If you want your children to go to the catholic school you must apply. I'm sure they won't expect a small child to go to full mass every week. But a lot of the families I know do have parents who have got very "involved" in the church and certainly all their kids are at the good catholic school. Maybe it's down to what you and your DP do rather than your DD.

And, as you have mentioned it, being unartried probably doesn't help your cause catholic-wise, as I'm sure you're aware! (Not my point of view by the way, just guessing what the Pope would say!!).

Unartried = unmarried. Obviously sin is rotting my brain!

From the perspective of a governor at a faith (but not Catholic) school....

I have a lot of sympathy with the argument that one can lead a Christian life without being a regular churchgoer but church doctrine as I understand it (I'm no theologian) is that fellowship is important.

When it comes to school admissions, the school can adopt admissions criteria which give preference to committed Christians. I can't think of any fairer measure of that than church attendance - yes, there may be good Christians who don't regularly go to church but asking priests to confirm church attendance is about as objective and measurable as it's likely to get. Schools can't and shouldn't make subjective and personal judgments about who's a better Christian.

On a few specific points:

faith schools set their own admissions criteria so check precisely what they say - if they specify regular attendance for two years (as many do) it may be too late to start now

likewise check whether they stipulate that the family should attend - leaving dc at home may not accord with the criteria

many (most?) faith schools have community places for members or other faiths or none. Is that what the school means by 'oversubscribed for Catholics'? If so, you may have the option of a community place.

Sorry for the long post. HTH.