To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

[nc0007]

Well it’s not really a debate, is it? You either don’t care, or you’re absolutely seething because your meat may or may not be halal. But irrespectively of what you think about this, AIBU to think that people ‘outing’ businesses on social media about what meat they use and encouraging hundreds of people to smear them not just in posts but reviews to tank their ratings is just crazy?

Hundreds of people commenting ‘I’ve just left them a bad review on google’ because a (British owned baked potato) business extended their trading hours to their Muslim customers? People who have never bought anything from them in their life, probably geographically will never go there. Actively trying to sabotage a business because you think you’re what - some sort of activist?

And don’t get me started on the posts where people reach out to these poor customer service reps in supermarkets to ask them if the meat they sell is halal because of this mad narrative that ‘80% of supermarket meat is halal’ - where has this nonsense come from?!?! 😂 People screenshotting and commenting about how ‘Clare from Lidl’ is avoiding the question when she probably doesn’t have a scooby and the answer probably isn’t a straight yes or no either!

Madness. Utter madness. People treating this like it’s a full time job.

If Pagans were granted an exemption to the legislation, that would be a backward step for the UK and a lot of people would object to it. There should never have been any exemptions made to the requirement that animals are stunned before slaughter.

Probably not - but not because I have an issue with it personally but out of respect for those for whom it means something.

If I attended a church service where holy communion is offered, I would not approach the alter to take communion because to do so would be disrespectful to the people who do hold those beliefs. Also I was not confirmed so couldn't take communion anyway.

In exactly the same way I refused to have my children christened because "its the done thing" and that I don't pray or say Amen after prayers when in church (other than the Lords Prayer but that's more reflexive than anything from school, sunday school and church choir when I was a kid).

Instead I sit quietly and respectfully until the prayer is over - just as I do when I attend temple at the invite of my sister in law for ceremonies related to my nieces and nephews.

If someone asked me to take communion, knowing that I was an atheist and that it held absolutely no meaning for me, but me taking it meant something to them, and I can be sure that other people present wouldn't see it as disrespectful then yes, I probably would.

For me it's nothing more than a sip of wine and a wafer / bit of bread, it's not going to make me combust and it's not going to change my beliefs.

That's fair enough. For you it is clearly different but for me, I don't see this pre-stunned Halal as being something that affords anyone any power (non-stunned is different which is why I agree about labelling, but would have to be more informed to call for an out-right ban due to the disproportionate effect on Jewish people).

I agree with the labelling - I said in an earlier post the labelling should be Pre-stunned Halal, Non-stunned Halal, Non-stunned Kosher - that way people can make up their own mind.

What constitutes religious power is an an interesting discussion.

I don't believe that religion has any place in our politics which is why I would like to see the Bishops removed from the House of Lords. I would also like to see the requirement for collective worship in schools disbanded (although I think RE should remain compulsory - but renamed to account for the fact that it covers atheism and agnosticism).

I also hate it when people get away with abusing children or women in the name of religion - the amount of time it has taken for professional services to get over the 'fear of offence' is disgraceful - and it is not fully there yet. There are still way to many girls suffering FGM, honour killings, child marriages to which a blind eye is turned. You could also argue oppression of women - but that, unfortunately, has very little to do with religion and everything to do with patriarchy!

Quite.

Ok so what’s the difference between someone saying no thanks to halal meat and no thanks to the holy communion?

You mentioned earlier the former was bigoted does it also apply to the latter? Is that how you feel when you say no

I posted similar, on the first page or so but some posters are too busy calling everyone racist to notice the double standards.

Let's be frank. The harrasment is only coming from a certain group.

I don't object to labelling - I said so in an earlier post - but I don't think it should be black and white Halal / Non-Halal - I think it should be clear whether it is pre-stunned or not.

As for reversible stunning vs non-reversible stunning - both are subject to failure with the failure rate for non-reversible stunning being surprisingly high. Some studies have shown up to 19%. UK requirements say that a secondary stunning method should be available if the animal shows any sign of recovery after stunning. This would obviously take a few seconds to realise the first stun hadn't worked and then apply the second stun.

In reversible stunning the cut is made immediately and death follows within a few seconds, long before the stun wears off. It is no less effective than irreversible stunning in that respect.

I'm afraid the meat industry kills animals in pretty vile ways. There is plenty of videos if you care to look.

I see school quietly switching to halal meat because of minority of students as a question of public policy - and therefore a political question.

Actually, I believe that with properly labelled meat, many people would be ok with buying pre-stunned halal and decide it doesn't really matter. It's that quiet sneak way which makes people unhappy.

If it means that the chicken nuggets "may include traces off", so be it.

I said that I wouldn't take communion because I haven't been confirmed and it is disrespectful to people who believe in it, but that if the person who wanted me to take communion knew I was an atheist and it held no meaning for me and still wanted me to do it, then I would because it holds no meaning for me.

How is that the same as refusing Halal because of unarticulated feelings?

Why would I feel like a bigot for respecting someone else's religion?

I think you need a better analogy if you want a gotcha!

I also didn't say that saying no to Halal was bigoted - initially I said that I would assume that an atheist who was saying no to Halal had bigoted views.

I was then told I didn't speak for all atheists, so I asked that person who said they were atheist what their reasons were out of genuine interest. They refused to answer beyond saying they felt they were being 'imposed on' which isn't an answer, it's a 'because I said so' response.

They are perfectly entitled to give that response just as I am perfectly entitled to think that their unwillingness to articulate why they feel like they are being imposed upon is probably because their reasons are bigoted. They can choose to correct that view or not by engaging - it really doesn't bother me either way.

Another poster did respond to the question in good faith stating that they felt it gave religion more power which was why they were against it.

It is an interesting way of looking at things, I don't necessarily agree with them at the moment, but I do not think they have bigoted views in regards to Halal because they hold that view. It is a reasonable argument whether I agree with it or not.

It is a view I hadn't considered but I will think about it and in time I may come round to a similar way of thinking or I may not, but it is useful to understand that some people think that way.

That's true - it should be made clear so that parents have the choice to send their child in with a packed lunch or instruct them to avoid the meat.

In the same way I wouldn't be happy if school decided to stop using meat and only use vegetarian meat substitutes without telling anyone.

I don't even agree a school should completely switch to halal for the sake of minority and just tell the parents.

If they offer three meals, one vegetarian, one meat-halal and one meat - not halal, it would be good balance. And probably some of the meat eating children will happily take their preferred food with halal meat, and that would be ok as well. It's the sneaky way of deciding that people aren't allowed an opinion which makes normal people side with racists on this topic.

I don’t see much difference between someone not participating in holy communion to another not buying halal meat. The religious element isn’t for them so they choose to avoid it.

That’s understandable and should be enough to not incite you’re bigoted comments.

Dr taj hargey, an Oxford educated liberal imman said we all should be worried about it because silently foisting halal meat onto a non Muslim nation is the work of extremists.

Everything should be clearly labelled and above board
He wasn't a fan at all of the Muslim council of gb

Excuse the typo in my previous comment — “sorted” should have been “forced.”
I’d also like to point out that Sikhs are actually prohibited by their own religion from eating halal meat. Yet none of the people who labelled everyone refusing halal or kosher as “racist” have addressed that.
It’s much easier to throw insults than to acknowledge that there are groups — for religious, ethical, or personal reasons — who don’t want to be pressured into eating food prepared in a way that conflicts with their own beliefs.
Wanting a choice isn’t racist. It’s simply recognising that dietary preferences and boundaries apply to everyone, not just one group. The term “Islamophobia” is being used more and more loosely, often without any real understanding of someone’s actual reasons or beliefs. It isn’t fair to accommodate choice for one group while restricting or criticising others for wanting the same consideration.

I choose not to consume halal or kosher meat. I know that kosher meat is not stunned, so that's clear.

But I'm a bit doubtful about the claims that 'most halal meat is stunned'.

Absolutely. The imam is right and has described the issue perfectly.

Yes, 100%, it's like when resteraunts have the symbol for halal written in Arabic. They know Muslims will understand it but non-Muslims won't. It is sneaky.

Totally agree

Is it? I think that’s reaching a bit…

observant sikhs don’t eat halal meat because by definition halal meat is when the animal is killed slowly with the blood slowly drained out of it. jhatka meat, where the animal is supposed to be killed with one swift blow is more humane, and the practice observed by observant sikhs. not sure why one religious group gets to impose their religious beliefs on others. halal meat is everywhere. You simply can’t opt out of it — especially in schools.

What makes you think people aren't? Are you some kind of oracle on what people think? Lots of brands that promote animal welfare get a lot of support. People can care about animal welfare in general AND be appalled by barbaric and cruel slaughter. Few people want to think an animal died in fear and agony - even if people like you are absolutely okay with it.

It's strange that so many people on social media suddenly became concerned about animal welfare at exactly the same time that flag shagging became popular.

There are other options available
ie vegetarian / non meat options in schools

Or
Ask the school to not just serve halal / kosher
Campaign.
Be heard.

No one takes priority

from Google
This is how some restaurants etc will label halal meat

Arabic Text: The most common symbol is the Arabic script حلال(Halal).

• Common Design: Often presented as a green, circular sticker or stamp.
• Combined Signage: Restaurants may use a mix of the Arabic script, English text ("Halal"), and sometimes a crescent moon or checkmark.
• Certification Bodies: While some signs are generic, others are certified by specific organizations to guarantee compliance
• Some restaurants etc may simply use a ‘H’

and labelling in restaurants for kosher meat
KF Kosher (Federation of Synagogues): A widely used symbol for kosher products and meat in the UK.

• KLBD (London Beth Din): Often seen as "KLBD" or "Beth Din" and is a major certifying body in the UK.
• OU (Orthodox Union): While US-based, the "OU" inside a circle is a frequently seen, reliable, and international