To absolutely loathe the increase in smear campaigns against businesses because of the halal meat debate?

[nc0007]

Well it’s not really a debate, is it? You either don’t care, or you’re absolutely seething because your meat may or may not be halal. But irrespectively of what you think about this, AIBU to think that people ‘outing’ businesses on social media about what meat they use and encouraging hundreds of people to smear them not just in posts but reviews to tank their ratings is just crazy?

Hundreds of people commenting ‘I’ve just left them a bad review on google’ because a (British owned baked potato) business extended their trading hours to their Muslim customers? People who have never bought anything from them in their life, probably geographically will never go there. Actively trying to sabotage a business because you think you’re what - some sort of activist?

And don’t get me started on the posts where people reach out to these poor customer service reps in supermarkets to ask them if the meat they sell is halal because of this mad narrative that ‘80% of supermarket meat is halal’ - where has this nonsense come from?!?! 😂 People screenshotting and commenting about how ‘Clare from Lidl’ is avoiding the question when she probably doesn’t have a scooby and the answer probably isn’t a straight yes or no either!

Madness. Utter madness. People treating this like it’s a full time job.

I think I have answered your posts. You are writing under pretence that you really want to understand, then maybe understand that don’t understand? I mean, your next post could be asking if I object to fixity shades of grey being read during slaughter. Your posts are not as clever as you think.

Controlling. Yes 👏

Most of the people who care passionately about this issue don’t give a shit about animal welfare. If they did, they’d be vegan, because non-halal slaughter is also grim, as is dairy farming. It’s just another stick to beat Muslims with, and the relatively recent extension of their “concerns” to Kosher meat is just an attempt to mask their real intentions.

They’re the same people who are desperately concerned about women and girls’ safety and rights when it comes to Asian grooming gangs, but oddly silent about (or act completely contrary to) women and girls’ safety and rights the rest of the time.

Atheism, for some people, is its own form of religion. Just as people of Religion A might feel a strong visceral opposition to a practice from Religion B, atheists often feel the same way about a practice from any religion even when it's not really consequential in any material way. It isn't logical, as they're the ones who don't believe there is any will or power, divine or otherwise, behind any of it to be displeased, so at most it's just someone saying pointless words that have no impact on anything. But if atheism is, in its way, equivalent to religious belief - and for many people it is - then that's why people feel the same reaction against it.

What I am saying is that beyond religion or bigotry, I do not have an understanding of any other reason why someone wouldn't eat pre-stunned Halal meat if they would eat other supermarket meat (people who cite animal welfare would likely not eat any supermarket meat, so that argument doesn't come into play here)

I'm not saying you are a bigot - I don't know you and you don't know me.

What I am saying is that without any thing further to go on, I will assume that anyone who claims to be an atheist who has a problem with Halal does so a reason that is bigoted. That's what people do - we make assumptions about others based on what we know about them.

I can assume what I like about you based on what you have written.

It won't make a difference to you - you don't have to care about my opinion. We are two people on the internet who will likely never meet in real life.

Personally I find differences of opinion really interesting. I think the world would be an incredibly boring place if we all thought the same. If people didn't talk about different view points and come to understandings, we would all live in our little homogenous echo chambers living bland little lives and throwing hatred and contempt around.

Listening to and talking about those different views, debating and understanding how others think, even if we don't personally think that way or agree with it is how we get to live harmoniously in a vibrant world. You find the common thread and then figure out how to live with the differences.

You do not need to try and convince me of anything - I was asking the question out of a desire to understand your view point, but if you do not want to talk about that view point, you don't have to, just as I don't have to take you at your word that the view you don't want to talk about is one that is valid in my mind.

That’s an even better idea.

Why is labelling and not buying halal meat an issue for anyone?

I already have explained my view in many posts. Making the assumption that other who do not hold the same opinion as you or hold an opinion different to you is a bigot, is a massive problem and I would say that in itself is bigoted in its own way.

I'm not trying to be clever - I'm trying to have a conversation.

I could have used Fifty Shades as an example - I used political writers because people tend to feel as strongly about politics as they do about religion.

But yes - Fifty Shades is just as valid an example - so would you object to Fifty Shades being read at slaughter or is it just religious texts or texts that have meaning to large groups of people?

And, as an atheist, why do religious texts bother you?

I'm asking you because the only atheists I know in real life who object to Halal have somewhat bigoted views against Islam for non-religious reasons (and yes I have had those discussions with them and it is something we agree to disagree on). The one's that don't have bigoted views don't object to pre-stunned Halal.

I don't know any atheists in real life who don't have bigoted views against Islam who object to Halal like you claim to do - hence me trying to have the conversation.

However, you have made it clear you don't wish to engage in an actual conversation which is fair enough 💁

Atheism is not a religion. It’s wanting an absence of religion. Some atheists are more actively seeking that and others don’t really care which is fine too.
I find it very strange that we pretend that muslim practises on slaughterhouses and meat slaughtered for Muslims is completely acceptable for the entire uk population and those who oppose are racist or bigoted.

I have engaged with actual conversation. Maybe re read my posts.

Yep. It’s something when the judgement is for someone who has no affiliation to a religion not wanting to buy a product related to it.

Why should they? Let people choose.

Yes, this is the issue. The secondary school near me serves all halal meat with 35% of their students being Muslim. Most of the non Muslim parents don't realise this. The school just assumes they don't care.

It's crazy that the traditions of the majority are being thrown out to cater for an incoming minority. This is what breeds resentment.

Atheism is not a religion. It’s wanting an absence of religion. Some atheists are more actively seeking that and others don’t really care which is fine too.

Hence the "some". But yes, for some atheists, the visceral reaction to a practice that changes nothing materially and at most, if they're right, are simply words spoken to someone who doesn't exist, is religious in itself.

Perhaps framing it as "spiritual" would be clearer. It's firing up the same part of the psyche.

So nothing should he done about anything at all, unless sharia law is days away?

Very helpful.

Now you are just twisting things to suit your own narrative. I do not think that everyone who has a different opinion to mine is a bigot.

Christians and people who follow other religions feel like a different faith is being imposed on them, some agnostics feel similar - as an atheist, I don't agree with them, but I don't think they are bigots.

All you have said is that you feel that something is being imposed on you - but that is not a reason so I have asked for clarification about why you feel that imposition as an atheist.

There could be any number of different reasons why that might be the case - all the atheists I know either don't care because it is just words or have a problem with Islam.

It is clearly not just words to you, so I am therefore basing my assumption of you on my experience of others with similar views.

I am more than happy to have a conversation, I am completely open to having my views challenged and explaining why I think the way I do. However you clearly are not - in fact, the more you pivot to attack me, the more it is reinforcing my view.

It is not controlling at all for me to say that without further information I find your views bigoted - I am not forcing you to engage, and my opinion, as an anonymous poster on an internet forum shouldn't matter to you. I have literally no power over you, so it is no way controlling.

If you see my opinion that your view is bigoted as a 'massive problem' then that is on you - I've been nothing but open.

All the power is with you - I have explained why I am making the assumption that I am in great detail. Either accept that you do not wish to engage and that my opinion will remain as it is or engage in good faith.

Either is good with me.

That's true - Richard Dawkins gets very preachy about his atheism in The God Delusion.

I really liked The Selfish Gene but struggled to finish the God Delusion because I felt like I was being preached at much more than any church service I have ever attended - it was almost fanatical at times!

Tbf you did set out your stall initially with the bigot stuff rather than openness.

But moving on, would you take the holy communion if it was offered?

@BloominNora

You appear to be overlooking the big difference between halal reversible stunning (electronarcosis - a short-term temporary stun) and non-halal stunning that kills the animal first (electrocution that kills). The two are not the same at all.

I don't see why anyone would object to halal slaughtered meat (or Kosher meat although that is already much more likely to be obvious) being labelled as such so people can choose what they eat.

I have an issue with any form of slaughter where the animal isn't stunned. Sure, to many people that's splitting hairs, but if you think it doesn't make a difference then think whether you'd rather have your life taken while you were concious or unconcious of what was happening.

I abhor animal cruelty and support anything that reduces it. We are a nation of animal lovers. Even the people i know in the UK who think that eating animals is necessary, want the slaughter to be as humane as it possibly can. YABU.

In the UK they think that 80% of halal meat is reversibly stunned, but legally halal and kosher are exempt from the requirement to stun. In additional the halal / kosher label, perhaps there should be a label to show if stunned and what kind of stun.

Anyone who's seen the comments on Spudbro's social media will be left in no doubt whatsoever that they are entirely based on racism/islamophobia. The people behind those posts don't even hide it. In fact they revel in it.

So all the posters on this thread who are genuinely invested in animal welfare, and always have been, are spectacularly missing the point made in the OP.

I think what we really should be complaining about is vegan food being foisted upon vegetarians . Halal meat just tastes like meat to me and frankly all animals we eat are not being treated well or slaughtered humanely. That’s the reality of it unfortunately

As atheist, I don't care about faith. That's your personal belief. I oppose giving voice or normalising any (more) religion in public space, be it changing common practices to accommodate some religion or creating specific exceptions in law. Every time some religion gets more power, it means less freedom for women and other non-default people.

In the case of halal meat, follow the law, create a clear definition, label the food the same way free range and alergens are. But don't quietly feed everyone meat which was prepared according to a religious doctrine. It seems that you are hiding something. My sceptical me would expect that many producers would be willing to use religious exception if it allowed them to use cheaper and worse method of slaughter.