To wonder why “new money” is so frowned upon in the UK?

[Namechanged2026]

Dh and I are what you would describe as ‘new money’. We both had very working class childhoods but have since earnt very well. We live in a big modern house, drive new cars (financed as it’s silly to put so much money into a depreciating asset - it works out cheaper to finance if you want a new car every 4 years) and enjoy a few abroad holidays per year (yes, we do like Dubai for the guarantee of weather, relatively short flight and quality of resorts (although we’re definitely not flashy Instagram types😂)). Our children go to private school and have had experiences that me and DH could only have dreamed of as kids.

We worked hard, got lucky and enjoy a lifestyle that we can afford. We don’t dress in tacky designer clothes (although we do have a few designer bags, belts, shoes between us), nor are we ‘flashy’.

But why is there so much snobbery towards this in the UK? Many people on super low incomes would talk about my situation negatively in a way that would suggest they would rather chose a lifestyle with a modest income and fewer luxuries because it’s almost embarrassing to want more than this. I see working class people use the phrase “money talks, wealth whispers” in reference to anything that looks like it might have been very obviously expensive. What do these people think that they would do if they all of a sudden had a super high income… just remain as they are as “money talks”?! Of course not. Yet they see no problem with the “old school” kind of wealth (country estates, kids at boarding school, muddy wellies etc etc).

It’s only in the UK that I think this attitude exists. In other countries it seems like such a positive thing to aim for a high flying career, to admit to wanting to earn as much money as possible, to discuss wanting to travel lavishly and experience lots of things. It’s actively encouraged. However in the UK, I think there is an attitude of mocking these kind of attitudes and suggesting people are shallow for aiming for this. I remember being at uni and telling a family friend that I wanted to buy a house in X area when I was older, only to be met with “is round here (a council estate) not good enough for you then?”.

I don’t think it’s necessarily about the money,‘it’s about the behaviour. Oftentimes people with new money put themselves in situations where they don’t know how to behave. An example is a few years ago, my family and I stayed in a ski chalet for a week. Old money knows how to behave here. We were unfortunate enough to share the chalet with some ‘new money’ people who were loud, rude, selfish and brash. Old money people would never because they understand the etiquette.
Many new money people think their money entitles them to behave however they like.

I am not at all saying this is you, it’s just an additional insight.

It’s this. You’re making different choices with your money to the ones they feel they would make in your position.

I’m not badly off personally but my version of this is that I often see great big tacky identical new build houses on sale for serious money and just think if you had that much to spend on a house, why on earth would you buy that when you could have a beautiful old haunted looking house with high ceilings and big garden which isn’t within touching distance of the neighbours for the same price.

The double irony is that the language I used (perhaps incorrectly, English is not a native language for me) to write the post was meant as ironical and written from the perspective of those of us who were raised hearing those exact words. I do not believe working class people live miserly lives or need to improve themselves (because there is nothing inherently bad about them?), but that is how many of our parents or relatives, or even teachers, have talked to us throughout our life.

Thank you though for the lesson in essential services working class people provide. I am university educated yet spent my 20s working in the hospitality and cleaning industries. I know very well what it means to work hard and to have respect for people in all professions. I have also never “turned my nose up” at cleaning the toilets or tables I was assigned to by my boss, as you suggest.

Does that make me working or middle class? I am genuinely curious as we do not have that division in my country, and I couldn’t figure it out when I lived in the UK either.

I was incredibly lucky to have a mentor figure in my life who helped me undo all the damage done to my confidence by the “superior language” you mention, so I truly hope I will never deliberately harm someone by repeating the cycle.

I don’t mean that I’m whispering. I mean that this saying is incredibly cringeworthy. It’s used by working and middle class people to pull down anybody who has any outward display of money.

But that's true of anyone, even family.

Kind of similar here - working class background , brought up in very working class town, except my dad had a trades business and did quite well - we have a business in media, def not rolling in it but live in a ‘posh’ small city - feel we don’t fit in with the ra ra rugger old money crowd, but can also sense some ‘it’s alright for you’ feelings from those who are still in my birth town - forgetting conveniently of course weve got 3x the rent and twice as expensive to eat and drink out for the same kind of level and often earning maybe only around a third more - I’m at an event here in my birth town for a few days and couldn’t believe how cheap it was - decent lunch at the perfectly ok pub , large mug of tea , £10.99! I now see why if I go to canaries or Majorca or Greece it’s full of midlanders/northerners often on their 3rd or 4th holiday and I rarely meet anyone from ‘down south’ -

What’s traditionally frowned upon is bragging about how much you’ve got. Or posting about it on social media. Apparently Harry Enfield will be bringing back his ‘Loadsamoney’ theme soon.

And it’s very unwise to assume that anyone who dislikes such bragging - or ‘humble-bragging’ - is skint and jealous!

No it’s been spent over the generations on priceless paintings, jewellery, antiques and land that can be sold should hard times require it.

I only see people who think this way on mumsnet

The USA, a country of immigrants, has a rather different class system, based more on money, plus the ‘American Dream’ says anyone can make it with hard work, and it’s your fault if you don’t.

But if you read something like Edith Wharton’s The Age of Innocence and The Custom of the Country, you’ll see iron-clad US class codes operating in the late 19thc, also nouveau riche arrivistes being mocked and excluded, but also, in time, gradually, grudgingly being assimilated.

New money eventually becomes old money.

Exquisite National Trust houses were often the show-off bling of their day when first built, and stuffed with expensive stuff their owners brought back from their Grand Tour.

Look at Pride and Prejudice. The Bingley sisters look down on the Gardiners because Mr Gardiner is in ‘trade’ and lives close to his warehouses, but their own money is only a generation older — their father made his fortune in trade in the north of England, and didn’t get around to buying a family estate before he died. Bingley buys one at the end of the novel. His and Jane’s children will be largely indistinguishable from those of neighbouring landowners of long standing. Class movement takes time.

And the UAE is an odd society, a late rentier state where the (unelected) government distributes (originally oil, later diversifying) wealth to its citizens to maintain regime stability in a low-tax, high-benefits social contract. Emiratis get free or heavily subsidised education, housing and healthcare. However, as there is very little incentive for Emiratis to work hard or take risks, this can only work by importing a foreign workforce that outnumbers Emiratis ten to one (in Dubai, at least). I assume it’s the foreign workforce’s bling you’re talking about. If you look at the type of British person who goes to live there, that will answer your question. With very few exceptions, it tends to be working class or lower-middle class people for whom cheap domestic labour and tax-free salaries outweigh living somewhere with significant problems. It’s a self-selecting sector of the British class system.

@5128gap bleeding hell, as per my last post, I’m actually quite jealous in many ways having grown up in a working class town that many are satisfied with a bit less in some ways- but are richer in other ways, friendships, family, cheaper housing , not constantly needing to keep up with the joneses- I personally would be now at 64, but my H most definitely isn’t -

OK. But accept a lot of people will find this shallow. I look up to people who achieve things, and/or who help others. I define that pretty broadly - there's lots of worthwhile careers that don't pay much, and some that do. I guess I admire educational and creative pursuits achievements too, again regardless of whether it brings a person much fame or wealth. And of course I admire people who are kind and thoughtful, which you may well be. But a fancy car and holidays to Dubai? Not so much.

No no no Rupe would NOT be buying himself a flash new car, you're totally missing the point.

As others have said, it isn't about the money its the behaviour. Loud, rude, inconsiderate to everyone else. Flash their cash outwardly but will spend every penny of what they earn with no thought to the future, or to things which yield a return on investment. There is a certain type and it isn't everyone with 'new money'. Its usually stupid people with money. That's what people roll their eyes at, not the specifics of a new car, nice holiday etc.

ie. long term investments.

I think people understandably don’t want you to think you’re better than them just because you’ve got money, to be honest I have known people to think they’re suddenly too good for you once they have more money .On the other hand people don’t treat you well if they perceive you to be poor, I was young mother and found had all kinds of assumptions made, other mothers at the school who had previously snubbed me seemed to have a totally different attitude when I started driving round in a nice car or they found out I was actually a working professional. I’ve never worn designer gear, mainly in clothes from asda and same for the children too and have an old car now so I do find people make assumptions again now, followed round the supermarket, looked down on when go to the NT properties without my husband etc. Actually we live in a 350k house and household income of around 90k and both are in highly responsible professional jobs. We don’t have much left though as true, the current ethos in this country is to say no matter how hard you work you don’t deserve anymore than anyone else 🤣

New money is fabulous, because it's yours! Old money isn't yours, it's somebody else's and always comes with strings attached.

I don't think it's just jealousy. It's that some of the things you've described are viewed as vulgar or ostentatious. Designer stuff, Dubai, possibly the specific cars you choose to drive.

Personally, I think your life, your choice. You didn't grow up with the socialisation of old money so you don't know the tells. But if you like the life you have, all is good. Don't give a damn about what others think!

You're talking about conspicuous consumption not new money.

All countries have a class system, even those that pride themselves on not having one, like the US. I'm not sure anyone else wangs on about it to the extent Brits do though, or at least Brits on MN.

Yes op, of course it’s a “thing” both on MN and IRL. Anyone on who pretends it isn’t is either dreadfully naive or lying. I’d go with the latter, because most people CLAIM they are delighted for their friends/family if they do well, but in reality? They are not, they are jealous and bitter. They’ll never admit it though!
And no, it’s not always to do with being “flashy”. I post nothing on social media and I look vaguely homeless a lot of the time. I do not discuss travel other than saying “I’m going on holiday” and vague destination. I do have a vast shoe/bag collection but they aren’t obviously branded, most people wouldn’t recognise what they were and I never discuss it. But, google now makes it very easy for people to get a lot of information, including how much you pay for your house (and no, mine isn’t a NB nor do I have “crushed velvet”)
I have literally had links sent to me saying “oh my god, you cannot live here” and it absolutely changes how people treat you, whether they will admit it or not.
The key op, is to not give a shit! It’s yours, you’ve earned it, live how you want.

Of course it is!

My point was only that just because someone doesn't openly show their judgement doesn't mean that there is none.

Although I have generally found that 'old money' is less openly judgemental than 'new money' because 'old.money' has nothing to prove or distance itself from whereas 'new money' does.

It’s not wanting something nice - it’s choosing things which aren’t good choices just because money allows. If everyone changes cars less frequently, fewer cars need to be produced, with less environmental impact. Top spec estate cars will undoubtedly be just as luxurious inside as your RR and more practical for prams and children and dogs, but there is this perceived superiority of SUVs by people who don’t care to find out about the best way to spend money on cars and just choose them because it’s the measure of success they see on their social media. This is the sort of thing I mean - by all means spend as much as you on good choices which make sense, but the totality of what you’re describing is that your choices are made thoughtlessly because they follow influencers or whatever. It’s what I was saying about some of these choices looking stupid. It’s as though having extra money means you have to spend it in the most conspicuous way even if that’s not the way to get the most out of it. Similarly for going to Dubai, as I said above. It’s not the responsible choice, or the one which will give you the nicest holiday, just the blingy one. And by all means choose a tacky LV handbag if you want one, but use it for appropriate occasions.

I grew up with very little but I am very happy to now be secure enough in my financial position so I don’t have to worry all the time about paying the mortgage and so on - but the choices I make for my money are very different from the ones you make because we spend consciously, and our decisions are coloured by a variety of considerations including moral, social and environmental responsibility, best value for our money and appropriateness for the item’s use.

The U.K. has a class system which is only partially based on money. You can be upper class and have very little money.

in other countries the class system is much more focused on money and assets ie how rich you are.

in England it’s more about whether your ancestors came over with William the conqueror

I just don’t agree with this. I listen to a lot of US podcasts and follow US people on Instagram as well as reading US newspapers and magazines. There are so many references in those to “class“. It’s absolutely extraordinary and I’m really surprised that people haven’t picked up how endemic it is. I suppose if you believe that Americans don’t recognise or have a class system you’re not going to notice evidence to the contrary.

Americans overestimate their social mobility and the extent to which their own family wealth, education and connections assts them in their lives. I don’t say that the we are different or better over here, but at least we recognise it when it happens. Another problem you get is there any suggestion of helping those less fortunate or having a system that is fairer is greeted with horror because “socialism“.

Many have an unnerving tendency in some areas to link money with morality, because it shows that you have worked hard and have been favoured by God. Unfortunately, the reverse is also true. If you’re poor and not doing well then it’s your own fault.

There’s masses of research on this.

What is extraordinary is British exceptionalism in thinking that what happens here doesn’t happen elsewhere. There’s been class, wealth, and hierarchies since hunter gatherers started farming.

and as for “policing arrogance aggressively.“ Arrogance is never ok, in my view.

Not too sure on that. It derives from centuries of class structure. Do you really not comprehend why it is the way it is? Regardless of agreeing with it or not.