NAMALT. Really? Dig deep and be honest with yourself. AMALT

[NoEggs]

I love my DH. He’s a great guy and we’ve been happy for many years.

But
He’s not perfect. Doesn’t do the laundry. Defaults to letting me make stuff happen etc. etc.

Now even if your partner is a paragon I would argue that the species ‘men’ will generally default to slightly bloody useless.

AIBU?

I don't need to be honest with myself and nor do I need to worry about all the men around the world. I struggle to muster up the meerest smidgeon of concern about it.

If its a concern to you, @NoEggs then you're the one who needs to be honest with yourself about your relationship and find someone you can be happy with if you're discontent with who you're with.

I have never in my life plumped a cushion. Does this mean my femininity is at risk?

I don't understand, women aren't perfect either. Who's expectation is it that oen should be?

Do you have kids op? Sons? Are you raising them to know they're genetically useless and inferior to women?

I think that many unsupported men can be conditioned by all sorts of factors: their parents (especially their Dads), their school friends, co-workers, team-mates Etc.
My In-Laws were great, but the culture of their generation has no place in today’s society, so DH has had to unlearn a lot of the ideas and prejudices that his parents brought him up with.
His co-workers were, I’m sure, all very nice people, but in a workplace dominated by men (physical engineering, and heavy work) you are always going to find a few unreconstructed characters, and sometimes, less-than-pleasant comments that he’d been around, came out of his mouth, too. However, I’ve never been shy of pointing out sexism, misogyny or racism to him, but not angrily, just as information.
Since retiring, he has had more time to listen and take on board more modern ideas, as exposed by our DC, and to be totally fair, as I still work, he has taken on a huge proportion of the housework Etc. as well as having the time to get on with improvement jobs around the house.
I’m proud of him: he has just taken our DD out on a walk with our DDog, and is treating her to a lovely coffee to brighten her day (unfortunately she is currently suffering with crippling depression, but he has managed to persuade her to get up and go with him).
I would also be the first to admit that I am not perfect: he has also gently chided me if I’ve said something hurtful, and I rely more and more on my DC to update me on “modern” stuff like gender issues Etc.
We all have to understand that we are not perfect, but that we should always be willing to change, and can, with the right support.
Sweeping statements like NAMALT don’t really help on their own if you want to change people’s perceptions: instead, discussing the term with the men in your life can be a really good tool for change, using a little understanding, and concentrating on those closest to you to keep their mindset on-track!

Do you mean physical abuse? I assume you don't mean CSA?

This.

also this

My partner takes the rubbish out, stacks the dishwasher without having it pointed out, helps me change the bedding, will mop and clean all on his own like a proper grown up. Seems perfectly normal to me. Maybe it's because he was a single father for years but I do sometimes wonder what women find attractive about men who can't adult successfully on their own without instructions. Isn't it like constantly living with a teenage boy?

I have a genuine question for those who are absolutely convinced all men are just simply bad, useless, etc:

You despise these bumbling morons so much, your husbands, your incompetent dads, idiotic male coworkers, in-laws, what have you, and just claim that all of us are just simply like that. We are just that way, so it seems... Do you not think that you are minimising these men's own responsibility in being lazy/not caring/moronic if you just think all of them are like that? You have a problem with the way they are, and yet you don't make them personally responsible, by your definition, it's not really on them, they are just born inferior, alas.. Don't you think you should target them specifically with your issues with them, instead of making everyone else take the burn for their downfalls? Don't marry incompetent man-children, don't have kids with someone who couldn't keep a houseplant alive...I don't know what to tell you.

And another thing: I would never ever question anyone's friends being so amazing, strong, capable and funny women. I bet they are, I believe that. But can you take a minute and consider that you can only view them through the lens of a friend? You think they are perfect, superior even, a superwoman - as her friend. You have no idea how it would be to live with them as spouses. This is important to consider. And all these women being married to lesser men, who are average at best - what is the solution? Bob should stop being average? Should he do better? Leave him if he is such an incompetent fool, unwilling to meet you half-way.

The problem with generalisations is that almost every aspect of our lives are nuanced, and yet, talking in general terms takes out all the nuance about the topic.

Absolutely nobody is perfect, or more superior to the other sex.

Then we're sorted cos Tony does bedtime, he does dinners, he makes lunches, he can use the washing machine and the tumble drier and the kitchen sink. He isn't perfect, but neither is his wife but I think, if all men are like Tony, we're doing ok as a species.

Thank you. Can I ask re 'domestic load' - beyond housework, what kinds of things are you referring to?

Exactly!

This!

I think generally men are more selfish and put themselves and their own needs first, especially in every day life. I dont know if its a survival instinct or social conditioning or what, and there are always exceptions, but statistics show that men are much, much more likely to abandon a sick or dying partner for example. I know that NAMALT stands for not all men are like that, but to me it means nearly all men are like that.

Such a thoughtful, pragmatic response which I feel hits closely to what is the reality for many of us.

This is my major issue with threads like this - if AMALT (ie they are all the same/bad/useless) then surely the counterpoint is that all women are bitches/moody/fill-in-whatever-misogynistic-trope-you-fancy?

You can’t decide men are one generically-tied group with identical values and behaviours and not - logically - say the same of women. I have known some utterly toxic bitches in my time (my mother), so would hate for ‘men’ to decide they were typical of the class of women and attribute their behaviours to me by the mere virtue of my having ovaries and boobs.

I’ve known a few men over my 50+ years who were bastards or idiots, but 90% of them have been lovely, decent, flawed, and normal.

Anecdotal experiences don’t negate statistics, just because you think the men in your life are nice, kind and decent (and they very well might be) it doesn’t negate the fact that men are as a whole incredibly more violent, do significantly less domestic labour and child care even when both partners work full time, are more likely to abandon their sick wives etc.

We have been socialised to accept that the bar is incredibly low for men, if some of these posts are anything to go by, all they have to do is take the bins out once a week, go to work, mow the lawn and do a bit of DIY to be classed as great and equal partners, meanwhile women are doing all the childcare, all the housework, all the cooking as well as working.

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with men, I think they are socialised to be selfish and violent and we are socialised to be understanding, selfless and to minimise and accept this.

It seems these studies are not necessarily the full story.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/dec/06/gender-care-gap-are-men-more-likely-abandon-ill-wives-family-relationships

I can see it being more likely though. There are more deadbeat dads after all, though that isn't the same thing of course...

I agree mainly but there is the fact men are more likely to work full time and do more overtime, so they may be equalising the hours that way in some cases.

This. And I’ve known a couple of lovely decent men who are married to women who, to be honest are controlling henpeckers and who have to ask their wives’ permission to do anything.

A question:

if women were suddenly able to have babies alone (like seahorses rather than via imported male sperm) would men die out within a few generations?

I reiterate that I love mine so very much. I love my many sons and the men in my life. This is not about love but utility.

But would life be easier without the need to need them to procreate (a basic biological imperative for the majority of women)

Yes.

I really like your angle, @OneQuirkyPanda . This is what I call a great way to discuss and challenge views. No name-calling and being personal...

On that note, If you don't mind - can I ask what you mean by:
"I think they are socialised to be selfish and violent and we are socialised to be understanding, selfless and to minimise and accept this."

Genuine question, it sounds interesting to me.

If we're talking about women who have children, the majority work part time, not full time. Around 44% work full time. So many but not the majority.

As to the number of women who are the main breadwinners : if we mean specifically women have have kids, around 30-33% are the main breadwinners. So again, many but not most.

Where are you pulling this from?

Are men socialised to be violent though? Certainly sometimes they are, but isn't a lot of socialisation about channeling their violent impulses into socially acceptable stuff like sport etc rather than towards innocent people?

I think there definitely are biological roots to men's greater greater average  violence. Testosterone and chimpanzee descent have something to do with it, though of course it's much more complex than that.