NAMALT. Really? Dig deep and be honest with yourself. AMALT

[NoEggs]

I love my DH. He’s a great guy and we’ve been happy for many years.

But
He’s not perfect. Doesn’t do the laundry. Defaults to letting me make stuff happen etc. etc.

Now even if your partner is a paragon I would argue that the species ‘men’ will generally default to slightly bloody useless.

AIBU?

My DH is genuinely not useless like that, he's great at cooking and cleaning. My dad was as well. He used to make my packed lunches.

I can’t say I’ve noticed this with cleaning and tidying. If anything male ex partners have all been pretty clean and tidy and laundry orientated than me. I do find co-parenting with a man, and most women I know who have kids with men say the same, they really don’t do any of what they perceive to be small stuff. The constant stream of tiny things that have to be kept on top of is left to women and as a woman working in a man’s field I feel this is extended to the workplace too. I don’t think they’re being lazy, I just think women have taken care of this type of bitty admin for so long by default these guys don’t even know it exists.

My ex did recently order new football shorts for our child after noticing they were getting a bit small and honestly I was delighted! There’s light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe one day he’ll book a doctors appointment for her! 😀

I agree. In my experience I’ve seen equally useless men and women so I don’t automatically jump to a women’s defense.

I think it's probably more in their genes that they're inclined to laziness. Lack of focus on maintaining children/their environment because their actual input in production of offspring is ejaculation.

But we are human and socialised to be less fucking useless. All the women on Mumsnet complaining about their non-contributing (I'm not talking money, I'm talking relationships / maintaining the domestic sphere) partners. It IS just the whole 'what are they even for' point. A useless man is a man not worth having.

I'm jealous of women that have GOOD men. But if I can't have a good one, I'd rather be single.

I believe it is more nurture than nature.

When I (female, raised in a flat in a city) compare my approach towards domestic stuff with my male friends, I see that those raised as countryside boys are much more house proud than me. It's very visible when they are single, as it's clear they just do things how they were taught to do them, be it cleaning or hosting.

Admittedly I’m a sample size of one but I can assure you I’m a selfish, lazy woman who does everything on my own terms. I’m not sure how I missed the female socialisation most of MN seems to have experienced.

Seriously? I must have been extremely fortunate then to have been surrounded by men who are in fact not like that. Perhaps its because we actually have discussions about what needs to be done, and divvy up jobs fairly, based on personal preferences, relationships and skills.

I think that, very often, women complain about having to do 'it all', when 'it all turns out not to have been needed in the first place, or was needed but they just did it without any discussion, before their partner had any opportunity to be involved. They they create the very dynamic that they are unhappy about.

Now, it's true that some people (not just men) are lazy so and so's who don't help at all - but it's not actually limited to one sex, or ubiquitous within a sex.

She didnt say that though did she? she gave two examples where he took the lead, she didnt say she did 99% of everything else. In fact, she indicated she was ill and therefore unable to do the majority

Not fully sure about that.

On the 'what are they even for?' - if a woman was working full time and not doing housework, would it be fair for her DH to ask, 'what are you for?' Housework should ge shared but it seems harsh to say that, to me

As a woman, I agree with you. I think the mammoth thing is meant to be mire about ancient tendencies than pure hypothetical, though.

My husband does all the cooking and is more tidy than me. Neither of us have ever "plumped up a cushion" in our lives though 🤣

I would ask why are women just accepting this life of drudgery if so, presumably most people now live together before getting married so why are they complaining about it but just putting up with it? there are many other options

We are more perfect. No doubt about it. Ok not perfect, but we try harder when we don’t really want to. Men do stuff only when they want to, and they often choose to be very good at their jobs but helpless at home. They’re born selfish. Sorry. I do have sons and I’m doing my best!

It all boils down to how their mothers raised them.

If they always got "penis portion" dinners, laundry done, room cleaned etc. that kind of "special boy" treatment because they are a boy and therefore mama does everything for them.... well that is usually carried into adult life, and the same treatment is expected from a partner/wife.

Always back to Mama.

It isn't just housework is it though? It's the sharing of the whole family load. I do totally accept some men are fine. I know some lovely men. I'd be happily paired up if I had a partner like that.

Also, you're massively assuming wives AREN'T working full-time. Many (most?) of us are. And many of us are the main breadwinners. In addition to main parent and also carrying the domestic load.

Minimal sharing of the parenting load? Not contributing to the home beyond a very basic level? It's deeply, deeply unattractive and IMO is why so many marriages fail. If you add in the obsession with sex and yet the refusal to understand how the lack of parental/domestic sharing contributes to a partner not wanting sex with them, it really is a case of 'what are you even here for', for me. Because I have no desire to have a relationship with a man just for financial reasons. I'll earn my own money.

In answer to your question, based on your definition, it's still NAMALT. The (vast?) majority of men almost certainly don't pull their weight in the home. Some do though. In my house, dh does more than me and is much tidier than me too. We both work ft. As far as laundry goes, we all do our own. He keeps on top of his. My laundry basket is usually piled high.

Agree with this.
I see entitlement in every single man.. I can’t really think of one who I would say is genuinely equal with his female spouse.

I knew cushion plumping would elicit responses! I think I meant it as an exemplar of all those tiny unspoken of jobs that end up falling to someone's lot without any one realising it. Things like changing tea towels , plumping cushions ( which despite denials someone does in your houses) and all the other jobs which someone does automatically as they walk past them.

haha! true.

But again, why do women stay with men like this? I can understand it in older times when women had no choice but to marry young but nowadays when people live together first if you notice someone is shit and selfish then why the fuck would you stay with them?

YABU

I would say its certainly all ok in my relationship.

But women abuse children more often which is always omitted.

My son goes to an indoor activity. There are two toilets there - each single cubicle toilets, so there is only one door between the actual toilet and people sitting outside. One cubicle for men and one for women. The seats for the parents are right outside these cubicles. I notice that men are WAY more likely to leave the toilet door wide open once they have finished. In fact, its unusual for them to shut the door. A dad took his daughter into the loo, last time I was there, and she did a big shit and he left the door wide open when they left, leaving the shit smell for everyone sitting on the seats near the loos. Its really disgusting. Even when they haven't done a shit, its still a not very nice small or sight ( direct eyeline of the actual loo) to leave for everyone sitting near the doors - which is everyone who is seated.

I hate to break it to you OP but the vast majority of inventions in this world that has made life easier have been made by men.

If you're just posting to have a moan about stuff like they're not much good at housework and childcare in comparison to women (generally speaking) you may, however, be right.

My husband currently does all the laundry. We share the cooking. He probably also cleans up more. I may do more child related admin and organising. We share nursery pick ups. He gets the kids ready in the morning whilst I get ready as he doesn’t have to do make up etc. He’s actually probably doing more than me atm. It swings and roundabouts and other times I’m doing more than him. Why do all these people who complain put up with it?

If it's so tiny you barely notice when you're doing itself, is it really a slog? Your list is a weird mixture of jobs that take lots of time, and really unimportant minor things.

washing, cleaning, food shopping, cooking, wiping down surfaces, cleaning floors, picking up dirty cups, plumping up cushions, hanging up coats, tidying away shoes

Washing what? I do the laundry (because I WFH) and find it extremely easy. I do the washing up because DP does all the cooking.

Cleaning - I clean the kitchen (because DP does all the cooking), we take it in turns to do the bathroom, DP does occasional deep cleans because he's a lot more fastidious than I am.

Food shopping - depends on what we need, what we're cooking, what time we have. Often we'll divide and conquer - you can so rarely get everything you need at one shop these days so one of us goes to one, the other goes to another

Cooking - he does it all. 100%. I can't cook.

Wiping down surfaces - we're definitely repeating jobs just to extend the list here because this is "cleaning" to me

Picking up dirty cups is not a job. They find their way to the kitchen eventually. If I'm starting the dishwasher I might do a sweep of other rooms which takes under a minute. Other than that this does not occupy my mind.

Plumping up cushions - if I think about it, this probably falls to whoever's hoovering the living room (and thus sofas too). I don't consciously plump them so much as just hoover them? Anyway we divide hoovering equally and I've no idea what DP does vis-a-vis the cushions (nor do I care tbh).

Hanging up coats - everyone deals with their own coats. I don't care if they're hung up or not. A coat on a chair doesn't bother me. It's probably mine anyway.

Tidying away shoes - hahahahaha this is probably the habit of mine that annoys DP the most. I kick off my shoes when I get in and that's good enough for me. DP has this thing about shoes having to be put AWAY. I've upped my domestic game a lot in the past decade but this one is yet to take. You will notice that in this case, it is the man who notices and cares about this issue and not the woman.

This absolutely.