Page 6 | NAMALT. Really? Dig deep and be honest with yourself. AMALT

Stifledlife · 05/03/2026 08:55

Not all men, but the difference is we consider the buck stop with us. They don't.

Slightyamusedandsilly · 05/03/2026 09:00

My grandparents (both dead for over 30 years now) had a far more equal relationship than any I've ever had. They were my role models as far as gender roles went because my parents divorced when I was very young. Possibly that has had some impact on why I have not been prepared to 'settle' for weaponised incompetence in my relationships? That is not to say I've had men who shared the load as partners. It means that their unwillingness to step up first manifested itself in my losing sexual interest for them (who wants sex with a manchild?) and then the total breakdown of the relationship.

One of those men is now married to a woman prepared to carry the domestic load. The other stayed single because he was inflexible and clearly none of his girlfriends have been prepared to tolerate it either.

Original poster

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:00

I luvs my ‘Nigel’. I really do. Together he and I have produced way over the average number of boy children although for full disclosure I did most of the heavy lifting in the birth department. We work well as a team. If he goes first I know I will miss him terribly.

I have friends who are men. I have friends who have met and sometimes communed with men. My dad is a man. I read the work of men, I admire their art and drive on the roads that they constructed, use the buildings they designed and the technology they have invented. There is much to admire in men (here’s looking at you young Sean Connery)

My thesis (incredibly badly argued I admit) is based on my observation that men are fundamentally more selfish than women. They do stuff but generally on their terms and are very willing to let women pick the load. ALMALT but in their defence there might be a biological imperative around killing woolly mammoth. I don’t know.

OP posts:

exhaustDAD · 05/03/2026 09:02

WeekendTripHelp · 05/03/2026 08:33

Except history for each sex is different. Women have essentially freed themselves from domestic servitude - not allowed to work and earn or inherit money, not allowed to vote etc.

The two are not comparable.

Men (white men) have oppressed. And many hold that history in their socialisation still and have an unconscious sense that they don’t need to hold onto the day to day, mundane, daily grind tasks and emotional labour that keep home and family life going. The work that has been necessary for all to thrive, but undervalued for centuries because it’s ’women’s work’.

It is a pattern born out of the patriarchy that is hard to shift.

my StBXH and I had a period where I could no longer carry it all and I handed over the mental load to him. Several failures that resulted in upset children made him realise that he needed to apply his brain to this ‘grunt work’ and - despite his man-brain, he could.

Within two weeks he was complaining he was exhausted. He was doing paid work two days a week btw. Whereas when I was doing the same (but doing paid work for longer hours), he couldn’t understand why I was exhausted. And we had two hours of a cleaner a fortnight when he was doing it.

He didn’t connect the two. It is different when it’s him carrying that load to when I do.

I held off picking up the mental load again for a while so I could build myself back up, and I lived like him for a while. I did half the cooking and washing up and half the laundry. Half the school runs and watching the DC. I offered to help with domestic chores when I was free and asked him what needed doing. If I noticed a job that needed doing like shelves needed putting together I’d just take myself off and do it. I worked in paid employment and on those days that’s all I did.

And reporting from the other side…

IT. WAS. SO. MUCH. EASIER!

I felt relaxed. Because I had low mental load. Unfortunately I still had to carry the emotional labour because he continued to dysregulate like a massive toddler. He then had an injury and I had to pick it back up again and could never even it out. Bottom line is he didn’t like holding it all. Very few of us do. And historically men have delegated it to women because they have had the power.

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A 100%. Patterns are certainly tangible, not questioning that. It is why I don't get butthurt when a woman crosses the road instead of walking towards me on the same side. I understand that it is a logical choice based on safety, and i don't start yelling "IT'S OK MAAAM, I WON'T HURT YOU". Is she safe around me? a 100%. Does she know that? Nope. So it is ok. ( How this scenario plays out is ok, not the fact that it has to be this way due to the actions of others).

Acknowledging patterns is fine, making fact-of-the matter generalisations is not.

OneShyQuail · 05/03/2026 09:02

NoEggs · 04/03/2026 21:47

I love my DH. He’s a great guy and we’ve been happy for many years.

But
He’s not perfect. Doesn’t do the laundry. Defaults to letting me make stuff happen etc. etc.

Now even if your partner is a paragon I would argue that the species ‘men’ will generally default to slightly bloody useless.

AIBU?

Men (not just men tho!) choose how much the participate and are active in housework, Kids lives, mental load etc.

Sure my DP might miss the things that need tidying away (i cant stand clutter, everything has its place) and yhe crumbs from the toast on the counter dont bother him like they enrage me 😂 BUT he shares the obvious jobs around the house, he does all the cooking, meal planning and food shopping and takes an active interest in the kids school, attending school events, running them round to clubs and attending competitions etc.
He will also ask if there is anything else he can do to help.

He works 40+ hours a week and still manages to be a thoughtful and loving partner too.

Oh and the children aren't even his!

So yes, it is definetly a choice!

SparklyTwinkleGlitter · 05/03/2026 09:03

Nope, I’m the one who is untidy and lazy around the house compared to DH. I generally only hoover when we’ve got someone visiting! Hate housework.

OneShyQuail · 05/03/2026 09:04

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:00

I luvs my ‘Nigel’. I really do. Together he and I have produced way over the average number of boy children although for full disclosure I did most of the heavy lifting in the birth department. We work well as a team. If he goes first I know I will miss him terribly.

I have friends who are men. I have friends who have met and sometimes communed with men. My dad is a man. I read the work of men, I admire their art and drive on the roads that they constructed, use the buildings they designed and the technology they have invented. There is much to admire in men (here’s looking at you young Sean Connery)

My thesis (incredibly badly argued I admit) is based on my observation that men are fundamentally more selfish than women. They do stuff but generally on their terms and are very willing to let women pick the load. ALMALT but in their defence there might be a biological imperative around killing woolly mammoth. I don’t know.

As my post above, I wholeheartedly disagree that all men are more selfish. My DP is anything but, as my post explains. There is quite honestly no excuse for not being a TEAM in any relationship. If I was with a selfish man my v*g would dry up.......oh wait yeah thats what happened with my DDs dad 😂

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 05/03/2026 09:05

I look around the school gates and my female friends and am often struck by how bloody brilliant - strong, funny, hard working, empathetic - the women are and how incredibly average at best their men are.

ArrghNoJustNo · 05/03/2026 09:25

NoEggs · 04/03/2026 22:37

But that’s my (fairly clumsily made I’ll admit) point. In this case you can.

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No you can't. And if you insist, you must be ok with other generalisations of other groups too, including women.

lindabysteven · 05/03/2026 09:28

Notmycircusnotmyotter · 05/03/2026 09:05

I look around the school gates and my female friends and am often struck by how bloody brilliant - strong, funny, hard working, empathetic - the women are and how incredibly average at best their men are.

Me too - it's depressing isn't it.

gannett · 05/03/2026 09:30

My thesis (incredibly badly argued I admit) is based on my observation that men are fundamentally more selfish than women.

It's not a bad argument, it's a bad thesis. Your observation just seems very limited. There are tons of women in this thread providing counter-examples (I'm one too, I'm extremely selfish especially regarding housework) so there's nothing "fundamentally" gendered about this.

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

Because if there's any pattern here it's to do with social conditioning and traditional gender roles, and which people conform to the latter and which people don't. But that's not "fundamental" by any stretch of the imagination.

Monsterslam · 05/03/2026 09:35

bananamilkshakeforeveryone · 05/03/2026 07:08

I dont think that poster is saying you must have a penis to ring a builder or plumber.

She is saying that her and her husband work as a team and she does the things around the house she feels comfortable with and he does the things he feels comfortable with. She also mentioned that she's ill and probably hasn't got the energy to deal with household crises like that.

Therefore they work together in partnership rather than one person doing it all. I am not sure what's so wrong about that? of course, if you are single then everything falls on you, that can't be helped but if you live with someone its perfectly reasonable to expect tasks to be shared, no?

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But the husband gets the one off jobs while she gets the monotony jobs that never end.

bananafake · 05/03/2026 09:36

ExOptimist · 05/03/2026 00:22

It must be the circles you move in OP because in reality NAMALT.

The men that are and were in my life aren't like that at all. My late husband used to cook every evening meal and pick up our child from nursery when she was young. He did laundry, ironed, cleaned, shopped, mowed the lawn etc and that was 35 years ago. My father who died a few years ago in his 80s was perfectly able to cook, do laundry, as well as all DIY. Both my brothers in law, highly educated and talented men, did a lot of childcare, pick ups, running the household when their children were young as my sisters often worked away.
My son does all laundry, cleaning, tidying etc and his wife cooks, although he is a competent cook, that's how they divide the chores. They share all the gardening and DIY.

If your husband is incompetent at doing things round the house and that makes you annoyed, then why did you marry him? Presumably you lived with him first and before you had children discussed how your roles may change and what that would look like?

So many women moan about crap men but they were always crap yet the women chose to marry them! Maybe the women hoped they would change but it's stupid to imagine that an adult man will change his ways. Or perhaps the women had low standards.

I and the women in my family and friendship groups are all strong women who chose to make our lives with men who come up to scratch, we wouldn't settle for anything less.

Before you berate women for their choices re-read your PP. You came from a family where women were brought up to have choices. You therefore were therefore drawn to similar friendship groups. Many women were not brought up this way and were undermined and disparaged in their own families. They didn’t learn how to choose well or set boundaries. I have come across many such women who have been conditioned to put themselves last. It’s very ingrained and difficult to overcome.

Rather than feel superior for your good fortune being grateful would be a better look.

Original poster

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:37

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

@gannett I’m just wondering if there is something about the pursuit of the woolly mammoth and the preponderance of testosterone that means caring for the environment you share (as an example) is less of an evolutionary priority than pursuing your personal self development.

I can see that I am moving into dangerous territory.

OP posts:

StandingOnaCornerInWinslowArizona · 05/03/2026 09:42

My dh (been together 35 years) is great and always has been. Of course, he is far from perfect but how many of us are? He does a lot to help me as I have chronic health issues.

Last week whilst he was at work (works outside) he gave CPR to a lady who suddenly collapsed in front of him, he was the only person around at the time and spent 40 minutes on his own giving CPR with her whilst two cars drove past.

I think he is bloody great. I also feel that my ds(21) is great and most of my male friends. They are all kind and considerate people. Maybe there are lots of arsehole males out there but I personally don't know any and am thankful for that.

stargirl27 · 05/03/2026 09:45

sorry i am on team namalt and genuinely think my dh is the best man in the world

Whyherewego · 05/03/2026 09:48

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:37

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

@gannett I’m just wondering if there is something about the pursuit of the woolly mammoth and the preponderance of testosterone that means caring for the environment you share (as an example) is less of an evolutionary priority than pursuing your personal self development.

I can see that I am moving into dangerous territory.

There are some really interesting studies on testosterone which support your theory. Carol Hooven and some others have talked about this. Men and women are fundamentally different at a biological level. This does drive propensity to different behaviours and skills.
However we are also learning beings and men (and women) can and do learn different skills that may not come naturally, especially as there are less woolly mammoth these days ! So whilst instinctively at a biological level there may be differences, in this day and age there are no excuses for no laundry lol !

lindabysteven · 05/03/2026 09:48

OP I do understand your point, and I’d absolutely describe my partner as a pretty much equal team player in our relationship. That said, I do think that by default I end up carrying more of the mental load.

More broadly, men are still born with a level of privilege that women simply don’t have. Even in the small, everyday things — like being able to walk down a dark street without feeling afraid when you see someone of the opposite sex ahead of you. Or not being judged for wearing “too much” or “too little,” how many sexual partners you’ve had, how you’re perceived at work, or decisions relating to your reproductive body.

And the fact that things like this are still happening in 2026 (as highlighted in that BBC article) says a lot about how far we still have to go. ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg5l75yx6vo

So yes — thank fuck for feminism. Like most movements it isn’t perfect, but nothing is. I’m incredibly grateful for the progress it has made.

And of course, it’s not all men — but the vast majority of the time, it is men.

Tiny models of a man and woman on a pile of coins and bank notes. The male models are on the higher pile, visualising the gender pay gap.

Gender pay gap won't close until 2056, warns Trades Union Congress

The average woman employee "effectively works for 47 days of the year for free," according to the Trades Union Congress.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg5l75yx6vo

MyrtleLion · 05/03/2026 09:50

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:37

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

@gannett I’m just wondering if there is something about the pursuit of the woolly mammoth and the preponderance of testosterone that means caring for the environment you share (as an example) is less of an evolutionary priority than pursuing your personal self development.

I can see that I am moving into dangerous territory.

Except it's been observed in hunter-gatherer communities that men are really rubbish at hunting. Tribes are kept alive by women foraging and storing food. The simplest thing can upset a hunt. They talk for hours about planning and then it's too late to go or it started to rain. Or they started to go and a lizard ran across their path which is a bad omen and had to come back.

I read a substack recently about a workshop with teenage boys. One said, "it's almost as if women are told to please men, but men are just told to please other men."

Another said, "the stereotype for us is about 'getting girls' but the female stereotype is about the future like 'get married and have kids'. Theirs is about being an adult but ours is about right now."

So I think that AMALT because they are allowed to grow up thinking about and mostly satisfying their immediate needs with no planning for the future because they expect women to do a lot of it for them.

And I think that's true in all cultures.

Doesn't mean we have to stand for it or stop trying to change it though.

gannett · 05/03/2026 09:54

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:37

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

@gannett I’m just wondering if there is something about the pursuit of the woolly mammoth and the preponderance of testosterone that means caring for the environment you share (as an example) is less of an evolutionary priority than pursuing your personal self development.

I can see that I am moving into dangerous territory.

Well yes, it's dangerous territory because evolutionary psychology/biological pre-determination is a trap for women. If men are so innately selfish hunters, pursuers and go-getters who can't overcome any of that to pick up a hoover, it follows that women are innately nurturers and home-makers: get out of the workplace and back into the kitchen, basically.

In your framework, ambitious women and nurturing men simply don't exist? Or are just weird deviants? Where do LGBT people fit into this? It makes no sense.

BalletSki · 05/03/2026 09:55

NoEggs · 05/03/2026 09:37

Out of interest when you say "fundamentally" do you mean, like... biologically? Genetically? It's in men's chromosomes that they don't want to hoover?

@gannett I’m just wondering if there is something about the pursuit of the woolly mammoth and the preponderance of testosterone that means caring for the environment you share (as an example) is less of an evolutionary priority than pursuing your personal self development.

I can see that I am moving into dangerous territory.

Regardless of our sex hormone levels both men and women process intelligence and free will to make choices based on our priorities. Some men clearly make better choices than others

viques · 05/03/2026 10:02

mindutopia · 04/03/2026 22:21

Well, we had our chimney collapse the other week due to storm damage. I literally was like, uh, nope, do not know how to deal with that. Dh had to sort out the builders and is now project managing about 6 months worth of building work and because I’m out of work due to illness, he’s had to rustle up the money to pay for it all. Similarly, we had a pipe burst today and I was also like, nope, no idea how to find a burst water pipe (outside, under the ground) and also don’t know how to operate a mini digger to dig it up, and I pretty much ran and hid and left him to deal with it. 😂

I think it’s all well and good being like, men don’t do the washing! I mean, Dh would have no idea how to book dc’s school lunches or how to pay for their clubs if I dropped dead tomorrow. But I don’t know how to fix a burst pipe or how to deal with a collapsing cob wall or how to re-grade the drive so that it doesn’t flood every time it rains. I have no desire to learn any of those things either and I totally disappear and leave Dh to sort them out because I can’t be asked with the stress. I don’t think either makes one of us more useless than the other. It’s why we make a good team.

Well that’s wonderful and I am glad you have a man to sort out those manly things. But those manly things don’t happen every month, every week or every day do they? Not like the washing, cleaning, food shopping, cooking, wiping down surfaces, cleaning floors, picking up dirty cups, plumping up cushions, hanging up coats, tidying away shoes etc etc etc etc etc etc add all those up and for many women it means a relentless never ending slog of keeping a home together and liveable and everyone in it fed and clean that has become their role by default,

exhaustDAD · 05/03/2026 10:05

Can I just add - as man, who also believes in the individuals' choices and agency, and absolutely hates generalisations painted with broad strokes for both men and women - that relying on hypothetical scenarios (zombie apocalypse, fighting mammoths) and events that happen once a year or a decade (chimney collapsing, toilet being clogged) is not the strongest argument. It is funny, though.

GinaandGin · 05/03/2026 10:10

D3vonmaid · 04/03/2026 22:07

What do NAMALT and AMALT mean?

Not all men are like that... all men are like that

gannett · 05/03/2026 10:11

viques · 05/03/2026 10:02

Well that’s wonderful and I am glad you have a man to sort out those manly things. But those manly things don’t happen every month, every week or every day do they? Not like the washing, cleaning, food shopping, cooking, wiping down surfaces, cleaning floors, picking up dirty cups, plumping up cushions, hanging up coats, tidying away shoes etc etc etc etc etc etc add all those up and for many women it means a relentless never ending slog of keeping a home together and liveable and everyone in it fed and clean that has become their role by default,

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Plumping cushions?! I have never plumped a cushion in my life. Surely that is part of no one's never-ending slog.