Religion in the workplace

[Whatothink]

For the last month we have been sent messages email, background screens and management briefings for a particular religion.

the following messages to

”showing visible support,
encouraging meaningful conversations, and deepening our understanding of the experiences of those of observences”

as well as being told to be considered with meetings etc and thoughtful and supportive!!!

Totally in agreement with you on all scores, sorry if I didn’t make it more clear. I think this whole thread abounds with hypocrisy!

Nobody’s lecturing you - get a grip. Christianity is not tolerant of other religions either. Didn’t Protestants burn Catholics back in the day? And they were both Christian religions! The vast majority of people who practice a religion are happy to respect other’s beliefs. Many of us have friends of different faiths and it takes very little effort to exercise emotional intelligence and make reasonable supporting adjustments if required.

As you are a Christian, you should know to love your neighbour- regardless of backgrounds, or emails telling you not to be a dick about someone else’s religion.

What do other countries have to do with British Muslims observing Ramadan in the UK?

Have Muslims been rioting in the streets after sundown in your town?

Quite! Maybe @BlueJuniper94 should go and do advocacy work in aforementioned counties rather than trying to stir up racial unrest in the UK.

@IdaGlossop And I am a card carrying Humanist. Not a person of any faith.

It's not racial. Most Muslims I know are white

Firstly, other religious fasts may be fairly protracted. Lent goes on forever and Navratri is 9 days. Secondly, even a person doing a one day fast may have an equal need to support or accommodation on that one day. In my organisation and other similar left-leaning organisations it's clearly selective. You're finding reasons to justify it but I think it just reflects a political bias towards Islam.

@Arlanymor Respecting the beliefs or none of others is something we should all rejoice in, recognising it's a freedom not taken for granted in all countries. I am a quiet Christian, and was subjected to an onslaught of disbelief (!) that I had a faith by someone I was at school with. She seemed quite offended that I hadn't talked about my church-going childhood at the same time as scoffing that I had any truck with religion. All of this intolerance from a person whose Jewish grandparents left Eastern Europe in the 1930s!

Typo

I love the Christmas gotcha.
oh, I bet you had a Christmas tipple you hypocrite.
how dare you take part in a cultural celebration with friends and family.

I’ve also done Hanukkah and Diwali. I don’t believe in those any more than I believe in Christmas. It’s fun to see how other people celebrate things that matter to them.

when they are at my home in December, people are technically celebrating the solstice. They are respectful just like I am respectful of the skew towards Christmas in their homes. No one with any sense cares. It’s about family and good food. Put it in whatever wrapper you want.

I do respect other people’s beliefs. I thought I made that abundantly clear.

My workplace sends out similar emails - we had a long one recently detailing out Ash Wednesday, Lent, Ramadan, Passover, all thoughtfully written about, and then went on about how important the equinoxes are for Pagans in a manner that was painfully obvious they hadn't talked to any Pagan staff members and had just shoved it in to tick a box. In my office, we have a bunch of decorations up for Ramadan, but the main topic of conversation most morning is how Lent is going for several people. It's like a mini support group each morning.

I get the good intent, but there are better ways to word these things and I find can make the very people they're meant to help feel more uncomfortable and needing to perform. Sure, some may want to talk about their faith, but some won't, and we're not less than. Having been suddenly questioned in the workplace as a very obvious 'not from around here' has always been very uncomfortable for me. It's not pleasant having that added to my workload, even when I know the people writing these emails didn't think that's how their words would be read. I don't think it's lecturing though - more they have a goal of inclusiveness and are stumbling as part of it.

I mean, my workplace has 'beliefs' zoom lunches every other month, and humanists are one of the main groups involved, but it's difficult for them to be included in the emails about beliefs and occasions coming up - there are some tries, the calendar we have up has a mix of secular occasions alongside religious ones.

What about all the Christmas-related emails and events every year? Do they bother you?

I find them to be a bit draining at times, last year they started in September, but generally am not bothered unless people get arsey about my not participating.

This past year, I had a new colleague who kept asking me to take part in the several Christmas events, and I kept saying that's not for me as cheerfully as I could. They eventually snapped at me for being weird and then reported me to my manager. Thankfully my manager had my back and reminded the new colleague that not everyone likes Christmas.

So I’m assuming you continue working throughout Christmas, on Good Friday and on Easter Monday in protest?

My husband and I used to always work these dates so that those who value these holidays can have them off. It's not a protest, we may be happier if we didn't have to deal with those holidays, but we can still do kindnesses for others.

He still does, I now work where I have all Bank Holidays off, so I volunteer instead - it's a difficult time of year for many people. I also don't take off any additional leave around those dates as I know some colleagues rely on having an extra few days for their holiday plans.

My turn to apologise. I am recognising exactly that: it is absolutely apparent that you respect the beliefs of others. My aim was to contrast you with the person I described. The limits of online chats 🤨

No worries, apology accepted and things on here do move fast. Thanks for rectifying.

There isn’t a bias towards Islam, but Ramadan is more taxing than most other fasts, hence it can affect the body more.

Neither Lent nor Navratri requite the adherent to abstain from all food and water from sunrise to sunset for a whole month.

Totally agree. People should not promote their religious views at work. (Equally, no one should ridicule those beliefs.)

Same goes for politics. I got sick to death of a lecturer at university ramming his Marxist drivel down our throats at every opportunity.

Oh that’s interesting. Do you mind sharing broadly where you live? I’ve shared where I have lived on this thread, so probably not a controversial question. Also you quoted a hate group… no comment on that?

I actually like having this level of awareness about other people's lives/cultures - because I'm interested in people generally. And as a pretty liberal, tolerant person I don't feel threatened by other people's faith but I think Christianity (being the 'home-turf' religion so to speak regardless of how secular the UK is in practice) is often seen as a bit pedestrian, irrelevant or basically naff compared to other religions and either pushed to the sidelines or ridiculed (which I'm okay with as I believe in free speech and I think the creator of the universe can cope with a bit of ribbing.)

I'm just aware of the disparity, especially in my volunteer work - the huge pains we take to be inclusive culturally, in terms of identities and beliefs, but references to Christianity make everyone feel a bit awkward (other than secular type celebrations at Christmas time - no mention of Jesus etc). And I don't mean just a ban on speaking to service users about faith matters - which I agree with in terms of maintaining boundaries - but it's frowned on even with co-workers. And this has been the case in four different organizations - all of which would label themselves as 'progressive'.

Tbf - it's not been an issue for me as my faith feels very personal anyway but it is noticable and other workers have been gently reprimanded for mentioning services they've attended or church fundraising etc. I would have thought it's at least worth thinking about why this is the case without being accused of Islamophobia or racism?

Could certainly be lent. I’ve just learned about the Orthodox (African) lent, and I have to take my hat off to them. Blinkin’ heck, they make other religious fasting look like feasting. For ca. 45 days they eat no fish, flesh, eggs, or dairy. I think they eat only a vegan meal once a day. It is the most austere religious fasting I’ve come across. I couldn’t do it.

On the other hand, my childhood lent consisted of just not eating sweets, or giving up biscuits/cake. Looking at the Ramadhan meals, you seem to be allowed lovely things like biryanis etc. It strikes me as roughly like the 16/8 (or 18/6) Fast diet where you only eat between the hours of a certain window. Just the window can’t be in daylight. This makes quite a lot of sense as you have a good dinner with filling protein before you sleep. You won’t wake in the night with hunger. Then have your breakfast to get you through the day, until your next filling dinner.

As an aside, I’ve just ordered Nadiya’s ‘Rooza’ or Ramadhan cookbook. It has lush and hearty looking Ramadhan meals from many Muslim countries. These are mostly warm countries ranging from Algeria across to Indonesia, roughly. I do love a bit of spice. I’m not a muslim, but it looks like a very interesting cook book.

So, to get off the subject of food, I don’t think work should be sending emails about religious observances. It is up to people themselves if they want to chat about it. I’m nosy though, and Iove to hear about different foods and meals.

No, Ramadhan is not as taxing than the Orthodox (African) lent. For around 55 days they eat no animal produce whatsoever, and only a modest vegan meal once a day, mainly in the evening I think.

Why are Lent, Navratri and Yom Kippur not mentioned at all in our comms? Yom Kippur is a 25 hour total fast. I'd think that would be taxing on the body. Not a mention.

YANBU in your observation that we are supposed to give the utmost respect to Islamic practices but if you asked to say a Christian prayer before a meeting or for someone going through a hard time you’d be treated like you’d shit on someone’s desk. And probably marched to HR.

I'm going to introduce the Christian concept of free will into this discussion. OP could choose just to ignore/delete the communications about religion she so dislikes, and choose not to participate in any conversations about religion.

Another thing she could do is express her misgivings to HR/People and Culture colleagues. That would be more useful than bellyaching on Mumsnet.

Or she could go freelance and shed all the corporate b*llocks.

Or work for a business too small to have the resources to promote cultural and religious understanding.

Or train as a humanist celebrant and earn her living that way.

So many possibilities.

It doesn't sound like it was being pushed at all. Sounds like you were being made aware of something which is likely to be impacting a large number of your colleagues. No different to letting you know that the phones lines for team 2 will be down for a month.

So we should be lectured to and supportive for colleagues whose religion is not tolerant of others

You’re not coming across well here OP. Meaningless sweeping statements like this just make you look ignorant. What do you mean Islam is ‘not tolerant of others’ anyway? It’s not true in my experience of Muslims I know. I think fasting for a month in the name of personal spiritual development is an amazing thing. I can also guarantee that the Muslims I know will be engaged in constant prayer for people in need and working helping others at this time. And you use a request to respect that as an excuse to deepen your ignorance and prejudice. Sad.

But asking people to engage in a prayer (for whatever religion) is foisting your beliefs on others. Informing people about religious celebrations / observations e.g. some people are fasting during the hours if daylight is just that - information