Wits end with lack of sleep due to 20m old - HELP!

[Hanw25]

Posting for traffic and out of desperation.

Our DS’s (20 months) sleep has never been good, but I’m now at the point where the deprivation is causing issues in my relationship with DH. Both of us are struggling to cope now, and DH is also suffering at work for it.

DS now outright refuses his cot, we previously did the cry it out method with some success, and because he couldn’t stand up, this worked well. He didn’t always stay the night in his cot, but we’d get a few hours sleep before he joined us.

Now, he either wakes as soon as we lower him into the cot (he falls asleep on us first, as he’d kick off if put in cot whilst awake), or after 10/15 mins. He stands up crying and shaking hysterically, won’t lie down, no matter if we try to settle or leave him for a while. On the occasions he settles in cot with me next to him and appears asleep, he wakes and cries as soon as I leave the room.

So he ends up in with us, wakes 2/3 times a night, and everyone suffers.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I feel like we’ve nothing left to try.

You need to do gradual retreat
it takes a week or two but it works
you’ll need to absolutely stick to it
establish a bedtime routine, lay your child down give them a toy and tell them it’s sleep time
you stay in the room - each time they stand up you say it’s sleepy time and give them the toy
do not make eye contact - repeat sleepy time phrase
the idea is over time the bedtime routine is established
there’s no reward for waking
you further away from their bed over subsequent nights until you’re just repeating the phrase

Wow he sounds really traumatised from CIO. That’s horrible.

We used Lucy Wolfe baby sleep solution with some success at that age. It is a form of gradual retreat - takes a few weeks but teaches them to fall asleep without you.
We ended up going back to co sleeping when DS cut his molars at 2.5 and with nursery sickness as we seemed to have endless issues with night waking and just needed to sleep. DS now sleeps 11 hours every night but it took 4 years all in and he is still a nightmare to get to bed!

He’s old enough to go into a child’s bed. Make a big thing of it, tell him it’s a big boy’s special bed. Get beautiful bedding and a couple of new soft toys.

Have a strict bedtime routine, so your DC knows exactly what’s happening. Finish with a bedtime story and night night.

Sit on the landing and wait for him to appear. Then as boring as possible put him back, and say night night. If you have to repeat this 40 times, it will be less the following night. You need to repeat and repeat. He will quickly get the message but only if you stick to it.

Op maybe not what you want to hear but co sleeping can be useful in these situations. If you can, consider buying a bigger bed or switching sleep arrangements to make space for everyone.

What is his schedule, wake up, nap time and bedtime? Making sure he has the right sleep pressure can help. If you aim for too much sleep he’s more likely to wake up and waking as soon as he’s down or within 15 minutes sounds like a lack of sleep pressure.

Wakes around 8 usually, naps will vary dependant on day as mixed between nursery, grandparents and myself but usually has an hour a day.

This is what I did in the end! Swapped from a cot to a bigger bed and co slept in there, and then gradually moved back into my room. Worked a charm!

I think I posted about my sleep woes on here but ultimately in real life I didn’t take advice from anyone who wasn’t waking up every 60-90 minutes almost 2 years in!

Do you have to get him to be asleep before you lay him down for his naps too? Can he self-settle at all?

If not, that's the obvious problem really. There are lots of different ways to help him learn to self-settle.

ETA does he get milk in the night, or is he just waking each sleep cycle and is unable to self-settle so you're doing it for him?

He will only nap if left on me, I can’t put him down without him crying - neither can grandparents. He sleeps independently at nursery though. Yes he has fluid when waking in night as won’t settle otherwise

It's natural for a 20 month old to want to be with their parents at night and it sounds like bedtime has got fraught and that's stopping him from relaxing and going to sleep. So at that stage we coslept from the start of the night. Used a floor bed, and stair gate. Snuck away for a bit once they were asleep and watch on video monitor. Waking 2-3 times a night is quite normal for that age. So that you can both cope you can take turns cosleeping with him. From about the age of 2 we set the kids up in their own room in a floor bed and with a stair gate. Similar routine but when they woke they came straight in with us. Over time that time became later and later and wake ups reduced until they just weren't coming in most nights. Now at very tail end of this process with my seven year old who comes in about once every ten days while my older child never does unless ill.

I’d get a double floor bed in your position… The cot just isn’t working and life is too short for failed transfers.
He can then fall asleep next to you, and if he needs you in the night, one parent can get in and still get a fairly good sleep?
Recommend a look atheysleepybaby on Instagram for more tips around this.

Meant to add - it’s totally normal for a 2/3 year old not to want to sleep on their own and to especially want someone there while they fall asleep, you’re not doing anything wrong, different children just have different temperaments. It’s so hard… Hope getting a bigger bed will help you both xx

Eliminate the cot transfer stress
Get him a big bed
lie beside him until he falls asleep (mine would breastfeed to sleep at this age )
when child is totally asleep - the ninja roll away (or stay if you’re knackered)

leave their door open so they can potter into you at night if needed and you don’t have to get out of bed yourself (or have their bed beside yours )
Just let them sleep next to you in the bed from first wake up
no stress no tears
no tears involved at all and you’re supporting your child so they’ll feel secure
your baby is only one they still need you
This is a season of life
it’s not forever
they all grow out of needing you this intensely at night
im a mum of 3 cot haters 🤣

Absolute rubbish. He’s traumatised from inconsistency more like. I did cry it out with my then 6 month old DS and DD and they only actually get upset for one or two nights and then they learn to just get to sleep on their own and there’s no trauma in that at all.

Absolutely bad advice. They will never leave your bed. I would just do a bit of the sleep training. I did it with mine as the sleep deprivation almost caused a breakdown for me.

We sleep trained so that our kids would fall to sleep without us there. I know some people find that really cruel, but I was in a terrible state from lack of sleep, and we felt we'd exhausted other options. I'm just posting so that there's a counter voice to Co sleeping (even though Co sleeping can be really special and effective for some people).

I’d put him in a bed with a guard and do gradual retreat starting with you sat on the end of the bed and gradually transitioning to you being on the landing and then not there at all. Stairgate his door for safety and put a sippy cup of water on his beside table if he wants a drink in the night.

This sounds like he can sleep independently but he has learned to use you/DH to settle him.

You need, somehow, to retrain him into self soothing. He is more than capable at his age. It will be hard to use cry it out methods (don’t suggest hours of crying or whatever the naysayers will say I mean) but let him cry for 5 minutes, go in and say “it’s bed time and you need to sleep” and then leave. And repeat. It will be horrible for a few nights but once they realise you aren’t going to get them to sleep they will do it themselves and a few nights of crying is NOT going to traumatise them at all.

Has anyone successfully attempted cry it out with their child when they’ve been able to stand? It just feels impossible

The OP has tried sleep training and it’s not working.

and how would you know they would ‘never leave your bed’. It doesn’t sound like you used cosleeping (effectively).

luckily I had DS2 to prove that all babies/toddlers have different sleep needs - he’s been a great sleeper. DS1 who is now 11 is still not a great sleeper and needs weighted blanket/white noise etc. it’s just how his brain works. He also did leave my bed.

lots of good suggestions in here - floor beds etc. CIO is not the only way forward

FALSE information
I Co slept with all of mine
and they DID leave my bed
and are happy well adjusted children (all three !)
zero regrets about all our night time cuddles

Absolute nonsense. I co slept with both of mine, and both now sleep through in their own beds (at 2.5 and 4). My 4 year old has been pretty reliable the past year, and the 2.5 was bad until I caved and co slept entirely, and then about 6 weeks ago she suddenly just cracked it. All kids are different but the chances of having a 15 year old who still sleeps in your bed are pretty minimal.

(Also, I went back to work at 5 months ish with no2, even 1-2 weeks of pain for sleep training would’ve killed me off - I took the oath of least resistance because I simply couldn’t handle any more disrupted sleep after at cumulative 4 years of 60-90 minute wake ups)

I used to let mine sleep in my bed if they wanted to … they’re adults now so they definitely do grow out of it despite what some people might tell you !

I didn't do CIO, but we did night wean two standing up toddlers using the cold turkey method, and at the same time didn't settle them ourselves.

Told them no more milk. Then just stopped that night, and when they woke just repeated that the milk has gone, sat on bed with them (or next to the cot), held hands, stroked, sang, etc. But no rocking to sleep. You can offer sips of water.
The first night there was only maybe four hours sleep for anyone. It's helpful to have two people, or if you're on your own then maybe your mum or someone would babysit from 8am-midday just so you can catch up on sleep.
The second night we got about 6 hours broken sleep so not too bad! And the third night they slept through (the fact that the process took exactly the same time with both suggests it wasn't luck, but obviously that doesn't mean it'll work for everyone).

The key is Not To Give In! The first night will not be fun but don't cave. Show your DC that this is the new way, and he will get used to it. He obviously can self-settle since he does it at nursery, so give him the chance to do it at home too.

ETA I've assumed you are bottle feeding, but if you are breastfeeding it'll be far far easier if your DH does the night weaning and you sleep in another room so your DC can't smell the milk. You then get up early at 6am and take DC out so DH can get some sleep. He'll need a long weekend off work!