Wits end with lack of sleep due to 20m old - HELP!

[Hanw25]

Posting for traffic and out of desperation.

Our DS’s (20 months) sleep has never been good, but I’m now at the point where the deprivation is causing issues in my relationship with DH. Both of us are struggling to cope now, and DH is also suffering at work for it.

DS now outright refuses his cot, we previously did the cry it out method with some success, and because he couldn’t stand up, this worked well. He didn’t always stay the night in his cot, but we’d get a few hours sleep before he joined us.

Now, he either wakes as soon as we lower him into the cot (he falls asleep on us first, as he’d kick off if put in cot whilst awake), or after 10/15 mins. He stands up crying and shaking hysterically, won’t lie down, no matter if we try to settle or leave him for a while. On the occasions he settles in cot with me next to him and appears asleep, he wakes and cries as soon as I leave the room.

So he ends up in with us, wakes 2/3 times a night, and everyone suffers.

Any advice would be much appreciated. I feel like we’ve nothing left to try.

I think some children just need you at night for longer. I think sleep training works or it doesn’t and it’s not likely to work for you now.

i would embrace the child you have and their needs. I would move to an arrangement where husband get some sleep elsewhere if it’s effecting his work and you find a comfortably big enough bed for the both of you while the toddler still needs you there

My 4 all coslept for different lengths of time. Be reassured they all moved out eventually. DD1 was 4 but the others were much younger!

I think this. Double floor bed sounds great.

With dd we put her into her own bed with a bed guard around this age, because she was waking herself up banging into the bars of the cot whilst she slept (she’s always been a really fidgety sleeper). As the bed was much bigger than the cot it worked.

Floor bed would have been even better though as eliminates risk of falling out - she didn’t fall out but better to eliminate that risk.

No

I do also wonder if the CIO contributed to it (sorry!) - it sounds like he’s desperate for reassurance that you’re there.

I think you need to re establish that trust that he’s safe and near you at night and isn’t going to be left to cry - that’s why I think the double floor bed that you can take turns to get into with him sounds good.

I think it sounds like, in the case of your specific child with their particular personality, CIO is going to be the worst thing.

I’m not saying that no version of controlled crying ever works for anyone, but CIO is a particularly extreme version of it and just doesn’t sound right for your child. He’s obviously craving your presence and taking it away even more isn’t going to be the answer.

For YOUR child.
I listened to this BULL for my child and it was the opposite. Hell on earth that you just won't understand because your baby played ball.
Some people spout dangerous crap on the internet that other mums compare to and send them into a pit of desperation and confusion as to why it hasn't worked for them.

I would get a double floor bed. This is what we did. Lie with them to fall asleep then roll away once they are asleep. Then you can go and sleep with them if they wake rather than having them in your bed.

For YOUR child it didn’t work. You are doing exactly the same as what I’m being accused of by suggesting co-sleeping is the only answer and CIO never works when that’s not true!

I am not spouting dangerous crap at all, quite the opposite, I am trying to offer a reassuring story of what worked for me, the only experience I have, so OP can try it and see if it works for her. If not, there are lots of other sensible suggestions on here.

Calling suggestions that don’t agree with you dangerous and bullshit is way more likely to force them into things that might not work for their child

26 month old here. If he only wakes 8 times its a miracle. Usually more like 14, record is 22. Me and dad work full time too.

We have been on referral to hospital for sleep apnea for over a year. Snores so loud I can hear it from downstairs without a monitor or anything.

We cosleep and alternate. So dad will sleep with toddler for a few days while mum has uninterrupted sleep then swap for next few days.

Yes!

My close friend and I had our first at the same time. Her son was what I’d call a “by the book” baby - if she did what the NHS parenting book of the time suggested, the result it predicted would ensue.

Not so with my dd and I couldn’t work out what I was doing wrong!

It’s not to say any babies are easy, but some are just more “by the book” than others.

Then my friend had her dd and she was completely different and it threw her, because her first baby had reacted to strategies the way we are told babies will.

My second was DS and he was a bit more “by the book” than dd but still not completely so. “Sleep begets sleep” was never true of either of my two - the more they had in the day, the less they’d want at night was 100% the way they rolled.

Yes I did also think 2/3 wasn’t necessary that many wakings!!

My dd was waking a couple of times at night (or not exactly waking but waking us by making moaning nosies) because she’d lost the covers at age 5. And believe me I’d tried everything and bought every going to try to stop it (she would have not truck
with a sleeping bag at any age so that obvious answer was a no go)

Worth trying every method though to find what works. Not rule anything out because people say your children will be traumatised by it which is just not true from trying out a method of sleep training.

My kids were 100% not by the book by any stretch at sleeping and were total nightmares until very strict adherence until I did a cry it out type of method. It was needs must in my case because their dad left when one was 4 and one was a few days old so by 6 months when self soothing was on the table, I was dangerously sleep deprived and it was a god send.

Of course different things work for different people but every suggestion is totally valid and OP should hear and try them all without any of them being called out as being bullshit or ineffective

What if the cot is next to your bed or one that attaches to it.

We have an old cot bed mattress under DS’s cot, with pillows and a duvet ready. If he wakes in the night we take turns going in and holding his hand through the bars of the cot / shushing etc until he falls back asleep, often one of us being there must be enough as we frequently fall asleep again before he does!! If we’re awake we would go back to bed or just sleep there till we wake again. I usually wake up after a bit and take myself back to bed but DH often sleeps there for the rest of the night! It’s a hassle but we’re getting more sleep than if we had to sit by his cot, and if we try and bring him in bed with us he wriggles about all over the place and gets over excited. Plus it’s reinforcing the message that his cot bed is for sleep, even if mum/dad have to lie next to him! Good luck, the lack of sleep at this stage is so brutal, especially as you have to function at work or entertain a toddler all day!

I didn’t say anything was bullshit!

I just said from the tiny snapshot we’ve had from the OP, it sounds like CIO might not be the answer for her particular child.

The post you agreed with and quoted called CIO bullshit

Their post was not as absolute as that - she said she listened to “this bull” for her child and it turned out to be wrong. She made it very clear that her issue was that it didn’t work for her child but had been presented as “fact that applies to all babies”.

She was arguing against the idea that one size fits all and not for that idea. She was arguing with someone who suggested CIO works for all - you!

“They only cry for one or two nights and then they learn to just get your sleep” - you were the person who first called someone else’s post rubbish and then suggested a one size fits all approach.

What I called rubbish was the totally damaging idea that the OP had traumatised her baby with cry it out and that was the reason for her struggles.

Then I said cry it out worked for me. For those it works for, a couple of nights is all it takes.

But you can pretend I’m the problem all you like 😳

I sleep trained at ten months. I can't remember whether she could pull to stand or not at that point but she definitely would have been able to sit herself up. We followed Ferber to the letter and by night three she lay down and went straight to sleep.

Some people will say it's terrible and I've traumatised her etc etc but what we did for a month prior to that, which was rocking, shushing, singing etc while she cried, on a bad night for three hours, was far worse for all of us.

Does he have a special teddy that he could start to use to sooth himself? My daughter has a comforter that she ignored in her cot for months but now uses to fall asleep.

If he’s waking at 8am, what time are you aiming bedtime for?

This is great! What some people fail to recognise is the trauma some of us go through trying to get them to sleep. And not just us, our children as well. It can go on for months and in the meantime, everyone is sleep deprived. That’s far more traumatic than three nights of sleep training.

@Hanw25 op how are you getting on? Did you have a think about a way forward for your family?

Double and a single mattress pushed together on the floor, him in the single you guys in the double. Basically cosleeping but with space. Give it a few weeks then move his single into his room. Get rid of the cot. Developmentally he'll probably improve sleep wise in 6 months or so and then he can go in a toddler bed. Do what you need to do to survive! I'm pretty anti CIO though so there might be other useful advice on this post - really hope you find a solution. Sleep deprivation is the pits

What a dick thing to say. CIO works for some, and no kids don't bloody remember it. I've done it, and it worked. Of course we went on holiday and backslid, but it did work before that.

Newsflash, you can be traumatised by something and not remember it as an adult . Of course he’s bloody traumatised, he was left to cry himself to sleep and he’s now crying and shaking at bedtime. It’s blatantly obvious he’s traumatised and there’s no need to do CIO when there are countless other options, including gentler forms of sleep training.