Got last choice secondary school, hate it, - turn it down?

[TeenToTwenties]

Click bait sorry. I haven't got a child starting secondary. I only have a lay interest in this from reading the boards over the years.

Of course I and anyone else would be totally unreasonable to turn down my offered school unless I already have a place at a private school or I really would be willing to home educate

Accepting an offered school does not impact your chance of a successful appeal.
Most areas you automatically go on the wait list for higher preferences but check rules for your area.
You can get appeals advice on the Secondary education board.

Well that was stupid. Putting only one choice doesn’t help your chances of getting in at all.

The reason you got in is because there was space for your child according to the admissions criteria. It would have been the same result whether you’d put down three schools or only one (assuming you’d always put that school as first choice).

All you do by only putting one school is leave yourself open to the possibility of being allocated a terrible school miles away.

It's awful. One of the closest schools to us after the local one is like this. It's so bloody wrong on every level for everyone.

A long time ago I was involved with a very oversubscribed secondary school. I remember the head talking about how quite often on the first day of the autumn term some poor kid would turn up in the uniform in spite of not having a place. The parents would be told 'No, your child didn't get a place here' and the response would be 'But we've bought the uniform now! You have to take her'. No. They didn't.

My children are adults in their 30s now, so I'm going back a bit and things may well have changed, but in London back then (in our area, anyway) it was usual for children to take a banding test at the end of year 5. The test assessed reading ability or general intelligece, can't remember now. The LEA had the results and they were automatically put on the admissions form. Most state schools were aiming to get a good spread of abilities so if the total number to be taken into year 7 was, say, 200 and there were five bands they'd aim to take 40 from each. Effectively there'd be five parallel admissions runs done, one for each band.

This led to a lot of confusion because some parents could not get their heads round how a family a mile further away had got a place for their son and they hadn't for their daughter. The answer would be that the son was in a different band and there was less demand for places in that band (usually this meant it was the top band and because the school didn't have a great reputation most parents of high ability children were looking elsewhere).

In the case of undersubscribed schools, they had to try to fill as many places as they could, so after the initial offers there came a point where they ignored the banding and just started offering to any child.

I remember there was a mum in the school where I worked who boasted that she had only put one school down, a very unrealistic choice, because there was ‘no bloody way’ her child was going to the catchment school. Well, on school offers day, they found out her child hadn’t been offered any school. She had to listen to her classmates talking excitedly about where they were going without having any idea where she would end up. Lucky for them, the awful catchment school created a whole new class to solve the LA’s waiting list problem and she was given a place there. Of course now the mum thinks it’s the best school ever.

There are really weird responses on here to the absolute sound and sensible advice to never just put one school down.
It really doesn’t matter how much you try and explain the way the allocation system works, people will still put one school down / not accept the allocated school etc. It baffles me, it really does.

Yeah we still put all 3 choices down for DC2 despite it being vanishingly unlikely that he wouldn't get into the first choice (undersubscribed, sibling priority and closest school) but that was because we did have a preference between number 2 and number 3. Realistically though (and local knowledge of the schools) if we hadn't got our first preference then we also wouldn't have got the second either.

@donfoxtrot - I never said to not accept the school allocated!
Last year, DS had several friends who were top 180 for Bexley grammar schools. That means they are guaranteed a place in a grammar school in Bexley and namely in the one they put first on the CAF. So most of them put 1 school down, which is guaranteed. And if the LA cocked up somehow, they would still be guaranteed that school on appeal due to maladministration anyway.
There are circumstances where you are guaranteed the school place by law. And there are circumstances where you are almost certainly 99.9% going to get it, in which case some will put 3 choices down and others may not. But it is hardly massive risk taking.

The advice is there to not confuse some people, but there are exceptions to the rule.

The other point is that every year there are parents who 98% will be going private, have accepted a private school place but are hanging on to the state school place in the event of [insert cancer, job loss, WW3]. In that case, we always get sanctimonious lectures and threads on telling those people to give up their private school place when the reality is that there is a slight chance any adverse events could happen too.
Again, I would think they should give up their private school place if they are near certain that is what they are doing!

Most of those parents do give up their place before the beginning of the summer term (so they are not liable for a term's fees). And this year, that's not very long after National Offers' Day.

I think the private school impact is very polarised though. It sounds like it's a huge deal in London, but it will be a very small number in some other areas.

It's because you were higher up the oversubscription criteria. Each school has a numbered list of criteria. Within each criteria, there will be a tie break - often distance from school.

So, say a school has 60 places. It might go:
Looked after children 2 (remaining places 58, no tie break needed)
EHCP 4 (54 remaining places, no tie break needed).
Sibling 35 (19 remaining places, no tie break needed).
In catchment 22 (applicants ordered by distance, last 3 don't get in)
Out of catchment 17 (none get in)

So some sibling places could be allocated to siblings that live further away from the school than non-siblings who live close to the school, especially if they got in by living closer to the school and then they've moved further away (which is why many schools have removed the sibling priority now).

If someone isn't high up enough the criteria to qualify, and they've only listed schools that they don't qualify for, they'll be placed anywhere.

“Most of those parents do give up their place before the beginning of the summer term (so they are not liable for a term's fees). And this year, that's not very long after National Offers' Day.
I think the private school impact is very polarised though. It sounds like it's a huge deal in London, but it will be a very small number in some other areas.”

Hmm, there are not rules here either. I know 2 families who ended up paying two sets of year 7 fees when a grammar place became available in mid September of year 7 and 3, when they got into a sought after comp eventually.

The rule applies to private school families too, hoping for a particular state school place not allocated first round. Some drop out and go private, others accept and wait until the bitter end.

The reason the private school impact is polarised in London is the huge knock on effect. Every time someone drops out of the state system, there is potential for multiple multiple people moving up and down waiting lists, and you have movement from some sought after state schools to even more sought after and even within the grammar school hierarchy, you still have people moving from one grammar school to another with [higher results, shorter commute, specific sports played].

We have two secondary schools in our town, one undersubscribed and one oversubscribed. We live next to the undersubscribed one and that happened to also be the school we preferred anyway. I put both schools down on the form but knew which one we'd get so I could have just put one. I didn't put a third because we wouldn't have been able to get to a school out of town anyway.

As I said already there was children who lived in the same road as the school that didn’t get in. We lived further away and did get in and as I have already said didn’t meet the criteria in any category such as looked after/siblings etc.

The last places that should have been offered on the criteria was distance. We were further away than those that were not offered spaces. So something definitely went wrong somewhere in allocations.

Worked for us

No guarantees we would of got this school - but we did....twice

Well it worked twice so we're happy with that

Well as the council rang me about it, I stood firm that I would only accept that school. It worked for us both times. Can't ignore the fact that it did work

Accept the non-preferred school and stay on waiting list for first choice. There’s usually loads of movement and a few rounds of offers.

Don’t turn it down. You have to accept otherwise the LA has no legal responsibility provide you with a school lace.

Accept and then hit the phones for alternatives

I will never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of people. Honestly the fact anyone thinks they got a place at the school because they only listed one school blows my mind.

For anyone reading this nonsense for the billionth time putting one school on your list does not guarantee you that school.

PLEASE don’t follow the advice to only put one school down. The person recommending this is either lying for some bizarre reason or only giving half-or less-of the story. A second’s thought will explain why it can’t be true.

It didn’t work!! You just met the criteria for that school!! Staggering what people believe. Let me ask you this, what happens if everyone puts that same ONE school down? That school opens 10 more classes to meet the demand of all the parents who will only accept that school??

Because you met the criteria. You’d have got that school even if you put 5 others. They didn’t put you ahead of other people who met the criteria just because you only put one school.