Dual citizens with expired passports

[Disturbedisanunderstatement]

Don’t know if there is a thread on this already so happy to join an existing one if that is the case.
Posting in Aibu for traffic. Don’t care if iabu or not. I just need to fly to the UK next week and UK passport is expired.
I could fly almost anywhere in the world on my eu passport so it is ironic I am technically locked out of my country of origin but that’s where I have a work meeting spontaneously scheduled for next week. I would literally fly in the morning and out on the evening.

Anyone else in a similar position?

Apparently these airlines are accepting expired passports:

British Airways
easyJet
Lufthansa
Singapore Airlines
United
Virgin Atlantic

Anyone actually had success with this yet? Or works with the airlines and can confirm passengers will be allowed to travel?

Technically your friend isn’t a British citizen - due to a ridiculous rule that was only done away with in 2006, for British citizenship to pass from your father he had to be married to your mother. Though I’m not sure how she’s supposed to prove her parents weren’t married, maybe by a statutory declaration?

The whole thing is a nightmare. I’m a dual citizen and live in Britain. My family - who are nearly all dual citizens too - live in the country of my other citizenship. I’m getting married here in the summer and now they’re scrambling to prove their British citizenship to get passports so they can attend. Three siblings, one parent and an uncle affected.

I hope you manage to get here, OP.

This has been publicised for about two years but inevitably some people are caught by surprise.

It’s in line with most countries. Enables checks before boarding so unwanted people can be denied boarding. The ETA is permission to travel and only for people who need that permission and are subject to control at the border. The UK can’t legally impose controls on British citizens.

The UK has been soft touch on Europeans since Brexit and will now have increased ability to deny boarding to Europeans who have had issues in the UK or some criminality. They may not be granted the ETA. Same for Brits going to Europe and using their ESTA scheme (which uses biometrics and is much more complicated!)

So there is some logic behind all the changes. Borders are going digital and data based everywhere. I do feel for people who have to chase more paperwork to comply with it all though.

Does anyone know - my nephew born in Germany to British father and American mother - currently has German citizenship and German passport. Will my brother be able to enter the UK with him next month? He is entitled to British citizenship but hasn’t applied for it yet.

It's not really though is it. It applies to all dual nationalities not just those with an EU member state nationality. So whilst EU member state nationalities would have probably been exempt prior to BREXIT, it would still apply to the other 168 Countries in the world. Including Canada and Australia where there are significant dual nationalities.

Is anyone else a little suspicious about the motivations behind this?
If it is just money grabbing for or from the passport application fees themselves that is one thing, but citizenship comes with other duties and responsibilities that can be expanded.
I am worried about taxation and military service. It is all very well saying that it is just a formality for travel, but citizens can be taxed and called up. What is the benefit for the UK to suddenly have a raft of people who are now British?

If he is entitled to a UK passport they expect him to travel on one.

I understand the reason behind it but implementation is poor.

Also: my European dh with one Russian parent gets an eta within minutes and can travel relatively freely to the UK on an eu passport. His children with eu passports have to go through a lengthy and expensive process to visit the UK because they have a British mother.

That doesn’t make sense

They were already British. People aren’t being required to apply for citizenship, but for passports demonstrating their citizenship.

@thesecondmrsdewinter20but nobody knew all these individuals wereBritish citizens, sometimes not even the citizens in question know. So it does make sense that a database will be updated. Who knows if the government would make use of this database as the PP is suggesting?

How on earth would anyone ever know that these Polish adults , with Polish passports, Polish parents, and speaking Polish , were technically British? If I was in that situation I would just travel on the Polish passport. I’ve travelled a lot and no one has ever asked me if my British mother ever happened to live elsewhere for a few years and became a naturalised citizen of another country before I was born.

I honestly don’t understand the drama about this. If people have British citizenship, then just get the passport, like the rest of us do. If they don’t want the hassle and expense, then renounce the citizenship. You can’t have your cake and eat it!

Just apply for a visa. You can still get one even if you are are a dual national. You’ll just need extra paperwork.

Well it just means they have to lie on their ETA form which they dont want to do. Because lying on official documents is never recommended.

And I think that the issue that people have is that an EU Citizen with an EU passport can travel for a small fee of 16GBP for an ETA, which you apply for online and it’s issued pretty much instantly, whereas if you are British you have to pay far more for a passport and provide all sorts of paperwork

Hypothetical scenario – you’re British and you live in France, married to a French man, you have 3 kids. You need to pay 184GBP for your kids' 3 British passports, provide legalized translations of their French Birth Certificates, a legalized translation of your French marriage certificate, your full British Birth certificate, your parents Birth certificates…. All of that is extra bureaucracy and cost bringing the total cost of visiting the UK for a short holiday with 3 kids to st least 250GBP. Kids’ passports are valid for 5 years, you might only use them once.

Whereas your French neighbour who has 3 French kids can visit the UK for 48GBP for 3 ETAs.

How is it ‘fair’ to punish people who are British Citizens by making them jump through expensive bureaucratic hoops just to visit the UK? Surely it should be just as easy for British Dual Citizens to visit the Uk as it is for EU Citizens?

It is crazy. What is also crazy is that someone who has recently acquired British citizenship cannot get a passport until after their Citizenship Ceremony.

So if you have been living here legally and jumped through all the hoops and your granny gets ill or passes away you cannot really leave the country because you cannot come back in.

One thing we found is that they don't tell you what paperwork you need before you start the application. You can not start the application without having passport photos.

I have also had multiple acquaintances whose children's applications were rejected because it is not clear at all what birth certificate the passport authorities expect. You can get two types from my local authority, but the British want the one in the original language, which then needs an official translation at quite a cost.

Furthermore the list of documents needed contains documents that are not needed, but would cost me upwards of 60 euros and some hassle to get.

He was British the moment he was born if his British parent was also born in the UK, it isn’t something he needs to apply for.

We just renewed expired passports from the US and it took 10 working days from sending our expired ones to the UK and us receiving our new passports. 14 working days to get our old ones back. My spouse’s work understood he wouldn’t be able to fly to the UK for work until new passport was received so his trip was postponed.
We looked at renewing in person in London as a same day appointment later this year and that wasn’t an option as need to be residents of the UK so we couldn’t even get through the booking system.

If people have British Citizenship and want to live and work in the Uk, of course they should to get the passport.
If they want to live and work in Italy and just want to change flights at Heathrow to go on holiday to Jamaica with their 2 kids whose citizenship cant be renounced until the kids are 18, how is it ok to force them to get British passports for these kids?

Disingenuous. They wouldn't need a British passport to come to the UK for a holiday. They're not dual citizens because they have never claimed dual citizenship. Nothing to stop them coming here for a holiday on Polish/EU passports. But they want British passports? Because they like the look of the navy blue cover?

No such thing as an English passport !

What is the rationale behind this crazy new rule?

They are automatic British citizens by descent, no need to claim or go through any process. And they cannot come on an EU passport anymore because they can not get an ETA, which is now required.

The whole point of this entire thread is that they now DO need British passports to come to Britain for a holiday!
Because according to British law they are considered British Citizens by descent and they are faced with

1. Applying for a British passport they dont want
2. Faffing around getting a bunch of documents to renounce British Citizenship
3. Lying on their ETA form
4. Never setting foot in Britain again.

It's utter bollocks. It's like forcing everyone in the UK who is entitled to apply for an Irish passport by descent, to apply for one of they ever want to set foot in Ireland, or to renounce Irish Citizenship through some kind of formal process. Do you get it?

Totally agree. I am a dual national and was nearly deported from my country of origin for not entering on my South African passport (which had expired). That was on me, so I just renewed the passport and never made the same mistake again. Other option was to renounce citizenship.
Its really not that difficult.

Children cannot renounce Citizenship until they are 18