Am I overreacting to this teacher’s comment?

[queenkettricken]

I’ll start by saying that I’m a teacher myself -primary. My daughter is in year 7 at high school and today her personal development teacher was talking about stereotypes. He mentioned the stereotype that English women go abroad on holiday, get really drunk and sleep with lots of men.

I’m shocked by the reference to sleeping with lots of people and want to email the school but honestly don’t know if I’m overreacting. I teach in UKS2 and cannot imagine touching on this subject even at the very end of year 6.

Should I accept that this is high school and that stuff like this is ok? Or am I right to be shocked that my 11 year is being exposed to this.

Ye the point was to get them to challenge the stereotypes and see why they are bad

Not teach them to agree with them

It depends if it was said in front of the children or not!

Well no, but there’s no point reading or commenting if you don’t believe the OP is there? Not in my mind. If he didn’t say it then he could just respond ‘I did not say that.’ Seems a strange and nuanced thing to make up IMO.

Oh, it really is. You can experience diseases, pregnancy, and what girl of 13-14 is equipped to cope with the emotional after-effects? I'm shocked at the 14 AOC. In fact, I'm actually aghast that something with so many dire consequences doesn't have an AOC of 17-18 everywhere. Actually, in most American states it's 18, according to a reference in Friends.

I do think the subtlety language is important here. There is a difference between talking about women ‘sleeping’ with men and using the phrase ‘having sex’ to Yr 7s. One is less graphic or seedy and therefore more appropriate for 11-12 year old engaged in a serious topic in a PSHE lesson.

He didn’t use phrases like ‘slags’ or ‘tarts’

They may have already studied relationship topics already including Sex Ed and built a respectful relationship within the class which contextualised the discussion. I found as a teacher dealing with tricky issues, that other children would often fill in the blanks in a far more frank way that I would. I suspect the conversation may have evolved into an approximation of what the OP has been told.

Would I complain? Absolutely not

He was teaching a class

He didn't just randomly announce it to her!

I don’t understand why people aren’t understanding that it’s not about the stereotype and that it’s the mention of sex AND in such a casual way! To 11 year olds! PSHE / RSE lessons are very carefully planned and delivered for this age group and then this teacher just says something so casual when there are so many examples of stereotypes that don’t include inappropriate and probably confusing language. I’ve got older children, a teenager and small ones and the older ones would have found the comment really uncomfortable I’m sure and had a lot of questions! Lots of people are talking about 13 years olds having sex in this thread, again she’s not 13 she’s 11 / 12. It’s so very, very young and if he said this I think it’s genuinely appalling and worrying and I think he would be dismissed if it came to light. I think if you were to sit an 11 year old girl in front of some of the commenters that don’t think it’s a big deal and they talked for a while about what they like and enjoy that they would be surprised how young an 11 year old still. We’re only half way through the academic year, she was in Year 6 five months ago and I think everyone would agree it’s a highly inappropriate comment to make in a primary school no? But a term and a half later it’s fine? I also think I would want to keep a close eye on behaviour if said teacher. Most teachers are very careful and cautious with their language, more so than they need to be and it’s odd to me that he chose this particular stereotype.

Did upur daughter know what was inferred by 'sleeping with'? I suspect he chose this instead of saying 'have sex with' because the class are 11 and 12. Some would understand, some wouldn't.

Aside from his actions, I'm not at all surprised your daughter is a sensitive soul. When she mentioned it you decided the teacher was wrong and that you were going to email a complaint in. She's asked you not to and yet you're still considering it.

Personally I'd not make a big deal when she said it, ask her what other stereotypes he used, what she thought he meant etc. Maybe have a chat about what he meant if appropriate, the risks of sleeping about and stereotypes.

If you still felt it's a problem, then ask to have a chat with the teacher and see what he says. Explain what you're uncomfortable with and give him a chance to explain his side. If this is unsatisfactory then proceed with a complaint.

But going against your daughter straight away is likely to make her think twice about opening up going forward.

It's neither here nor there, but I don't think that's a widely held stereotype either.

He shouldn’t be talking about sex, full stop. He’s a personal development teacher, not RSE / PSHE. There should be no mention of sex in any way shape or form by any teacher in any way where it has not been planned, checked and delivered carefully in the appropriate lesson. Personal Development is not linked to PSHE / RSE. I don’t understand why anyone would struggle to see why it would be problematic for a teacher to discuss anything sexual with students. I believe that he will be suspended and investigated if OP reports this. I think a LADO will quite rightly be made and I hope she updates us.

I dont know. With age of consent it doesnt mean you have to, you can stil have sex when you choose to.

A lot of girls in my school were having sex at 13, 14, 15. I didnt have until 22. First of all i dont follow the crowd. The second reason was that i had been sexually abused as a child so tthst put me off

Mentions of sleeping around/causal sex apparently in 12A related films.

If he'd said "English women abroad are whores and sluts who fuck around" then the language would be inappropriate

You'd be better asking your DD what else was said in the lesson. Establish that what followed was the teacher explaining why stereotypes are bad, what other examples were used etc

I remember a similar class at school where the stereotype, very relevant at the time, was "all Muslims are terrorists". Out of context, it would be awful for the teacher to say it but in context the idea was to challenge the stereotype and encourage us to understand why it's wrong

Please update the thread OP when you have decided what to do. I am genuinely worried at how many people think a teacher alluding to sex in any way shape or form unless they are teaching RSE and following all the guidelines is okay. I’m teaching Yr6 tomorrow, by some peoples reasoning if there’s a September child in the class they could be only a few days younger than some children in your daughters class. I think some people need to sit with that for a while, would it be okay for me to make a similar comment whilst teaching reading for example because it vaguely links to a text? Of course it wouldn’t!

Personal Development IS PHSE though

He wasn't discussing sex with the students either. He was discussing stereotypes and vaguely mentioned sex within that context

But primary and secondary are different

Books studied at secondary will have far more mature themes than those at primary

And just like any age restriction, it's an arbitrary thing. A 17 year old and an 18 year old are fundamentally the same but by virtue of hours one is considered a child and one an adult for example

“He mentioned the stereotype that English women go abroad on holiday, get really drunk and sleep with lots of men.”

This is a) sexist (pretty sure there is just as strong a stereotype about English men if this stereotype even exists) b) skeezy. Honestly I can’t tell you how strongly I feel that a man who will bring this up for no reason whatsoever with 11/12 year old children is not a man I trust with kids.

For goodness sake if we had unconscious bias training at work and my manager talked about a stereotype that “women in head office go on holiday and get drunk and sleep with lots of men” I’d expect complaints at the very least, I think he’d be lucky not to be on the end of a disciplinary. And that’s without the safeguarding element here. Creepy.

My jaw just dropped to the floor. Of course your daughter is telling the truth because how could she have made up a non existent stereotype such as this. This is not an example of a stereotype, it is the racist, misogynistic contents of this teacher's mind and I would make a complaint about it.

Dunno why everyone thinks this is normal.
I wouldn't even talk to my 15 year old about this
Just why?
How is it appropriate for a male teacher to discuss this with 11 year old girls?
Like what exactly are they supposed to be discussing exactly?
What's the lesson?
His views?
Terrible stereotypes?
I don't understand why such a statement would need to be discussed by 11 year olds.
Maybe they could discuss the drinking issue as that happens in broad day light even at home on occasion
But sleeping around? Really?

But if he mentioned the stereotype "Men in turbans don't drink" or "black people always stink" in the context of your training to highlight things that were inappropriate to say or think, both of which were mentioned by the (non-white) trainer in my last inclusivity training, would that be wrong too?

Mentioning specific stereotypes within the context of encouraging critical thinking around said stereotypes is not "for no reason whatsoever" and involves uncomfortable things being said to challenge people

I'm a teacher too .I know children.. particularly mine can take things out of context .Id make an appointment with said teacher. ..ask him the following.. The reason I'm hear is to clarify what you said to daughters ... What's him squirm...... Apologies.Ask him to explain to your daughters what he said was wrong. ..and leave proudly ...

Well clearly the lesson was on stereotypes and why they are bad and should be challenged and an example was used to get the class talking about why the stereotype was wrong, why it might hurtful etc

It's a very common class

I don't think it was a lesson on which stereotypes we all like, some weird prejudice show and tell. A lesson on stereotypes in a modern British school isn't going to be structured to promote them is it.

The way I read the OP is that a teacher gave it as an example of what people used to think of female holiday makers from the UK, and then presumably unpacked it, and explored how it might impact young women.

Odd that the example was girls only though, unless OP's daughter is in a girls school (or daughter omitted part of the example)

I think a lot of people are forgetting that this was said to a child. An 11yr old child. My 11yr old DD doesn’t even know what sex is, yet! I’d be furious

I don't think it was appopriate. I work with 16 year olds. I dont teach sex ed. I wouldnever mention sex to them. Ever.

Yes I'm a teacher and it's inappropriate language for year 7, ask to speak to him directly and tell him, if your child comes home with any other comments they've heard that are this distasteful you will email in a complaint