To be at my wit's end with DS?

[WithTwoGiantBoys]

DS17 is driving me nuts. In year 12 and simply has no work ethic at all when it comes to his school work. He is doing ok in a practical BTEC and a practical A Level but is failing his maths A Level. We got a tutor to help him, school is doing lots to support him, but it just isn't his priority and he just doesn't seem to care. All he cares about are his mates, his girlfriend, the gym, and his part time job (which only matters to fund his lifestyle).

AIBU to expect him to put in some effort? It's half term and he has done nothing but enjoy himself. I have pointed out repeatedly that we won't be funding his lifestyle after school if he doesn't have a job or a course of study. He just nods along then does nothing. I can't force him to do anything, so I just end up frustrated. I love him, he's a great lad, but if I hear "It's not that deep" one more time I might explode.

YABU: it's his life, you can't make him do anything, he just has to find out for himself and you support him best you can but have to just let it go

YANBU: You are right to be angry and just haven't found the right tactic yet to make him study. (Please tell.me what this is as I'm out of ideas)

He has a job, a girlfriend, friends and an interest in exercise. He’ll figure the rest out.

Count your blessings. I’m not going to go into detail about what happened to my son when he was sitting his A levels, but suffice to say, I’ve since had my priorities rearranged dramatically.

He sounds motivated - he just isn’t motivated by the same things you are.

Most new businesses end up failing anyway.

Many practical courses require some basic school qualifications. Even if some don't, having school qualification opens a multitude of doors.

@WithTwoGiantBoys same here! DS1 who is 19 is doing medicine at uni and was super motivated to work hard. I think it would make a huge difference if DS2 knew where he wanted to end up but he has no idea.

The world is changing with AI. The old rules propounded by people like the Academic are falling away. Likely those like ops son will prosper whilst the swotty ones with strings of degrees will struggle to find work. Also nonsense about businesses failing 🙄

@WithTwoGiantBoys let him get on with it. He's got a lot on his plate for 17, 6th form, part time job, fitness, friends, gf. If with consistent effort of he's only going to scrape a C/D is 6th form the right place for him?

I could have written this post myself 3 years ago. My youngest had decided to follow in her brother's footsteps to study maths, further maths & physics A levels along with product design. We'd encouraged a more practical route which would be more suited to her learning style. She loved product design but found that the other subjects weren't as easy as her brother made them look. She applied herself entirely to the subject she enjoyed, prioritised paid work, volunteering, a relationship etc to avoid the struggle. She did engage with tuition but found that hard because it was separate to school & she almost didn't know what she didn't know to be able to get the right help.
At the end, grades weren't all that she'd hoped but she still got her uni place, just with a foundation year. She also got a part time job directly related to product design which she loves. This has motivated her as she now sees a career path.
Don't give up hope. The most important thing is to maintain your relationship as someone who is supporting them & not judging them for struggling.

Yeah right. OPs son will prosper by not putting effort in. It doesn't matter to me what he's doing, just he should be putting a good concerted effort into doing what he wants to do. He wants to do maths, another a level and a btec. Do a good job out of that and do the best he can.

Even if he's doing something just practical, he should have work ethnic to do the best he can in what he wants to do.

Can he switch to core maths? It's still an a level or as level (depending on which his school offer) but is based on practical maths rather than the more conceptual stuff. It's usually taught to support the maths elements of physics, chemistry, environmental science or geography but is great for real life maths such as wages, percentages, interest rates, graphs and data

I’ve been in a similar situation- eldest son was motivated, got the grades to get into top uni and got a good degree.
Second son could do well at school if he applied himself but wasn’t really that motivated; he had to retake maths GCSE and barely scraped a pass, then went to 2 different 6th forms to get some fairly average A levels. He went on to do a degree in Business studies at the local uni, and completely knocked it out of the park. Was really motivated and got a first class degree, found a really good job in business analysis that he loves and is now being sponsored to do a Masters, which again he is loving and getting top marks for coursework.

Eldest son went travelling after uni and ended up living abroad for 2 years (because of Covid initially) doing manual jobs. He got tired of having to live hand to mouth with no real prospects so came back to the uk and eventually got a desk job with a good career path that he is doing really well at.

Both sons have always played a team sport to high levels for most of their lives, so it can be combined.

I think my point is, you have to grit your teeth and let them get on with it and know that they will find their way eventually. I am lucky that I could afford to support both sons by having them living at home while they got sorted, but, neither took advantage during those times.

The thing is you have to encourage your DC to work hard and try to achieve their best. I would never allow my DC just to coast and not put effort in at school. They need to wake up and actually work. If they switch on later and actually have a wake up call that's great.

But I've told my children they'd never want to be in a position, earning a low wage, thinking "if only I had worked harder back then I'd have been in a better position now".

I flunked 2 of my A-levels and am earning over NMW in a job I enjoy. Academia isn't for everyone and lots of people get to A-levels and suffer education burnout, if he's doing OK in the practical subjects and getting experience of actually holding down a part-time job then maybe that's going to be more use to him in the future.

How much over? What did you do immediately after a levels? Did you have to spend extra time making up for it?

He's in sixth form now and even if he isn't academic he should be working to make the best out of what he's currently studying. Having a good work ethic and can do attitude always helps.

After college I went straight into a job that was what I wanted to do (and nothing connected to my A-levels, I was told by parents, teachers and careers staff that I 'should do' A-levels because I 'had the brains to do so' ) the jobs I have held were always things more practical than academic. With my children I told them to do the best they can at that time, if it wasn't enough to get what THEY wanted they could always try again.

Can you imagine how difficult it has been for him following his genius brother through school and dyslexic. He may have come to a point where he is trying a lot more than it looks.

I think it’s about communicating around how challenging is he finding it, whether it’s still what he wants to do or is it too much.

Crash and burn is a possibility.

If need be, he can restart y12 at a different college and do a Level 3 Extended Diploma or T-Levels.

C or D at maths a level isn't going to change his earning potential. That's what the OP has said he's capable of if he works at it. He is doing well at his btech and vocational a level, so the best support would be to let him work out what he wants to do after college and the best path to that. It's unlikely to be a D grade A level.

Is the practical BTEC a single or double?

I'd assume a certificate. 2 A levels and a BTEC.

Honestly you have to let him fail and face the consequences. Ds, hugely bright, mucked about in year 12 and had a huge shock when he got an E at AS in physics. He made the decision to repeat year 12, did a different A Level along with the 2 original ones and knuckled down. I backed off, decided that he had to make his own choices but put boundaries in such as if not in school then had to work and start paying his way. He got excellent grades in the end, went to uni and did a masters. It was such hard but they are adults and you can advise and support but ultimately it is down to them.

It's not about earning potential but about access to apprenticeships or higher education courses - a D would likely get him enough UCAS points with his other results to get on to the courses he has shown any glimmer of interest in.

But he isn't sure yet what he wants so would just like him to keep the doors ajar.

He's a very different child to his brother, sporty and great with people. The fact that his brother was always off the scale (and a different type of neurospicy) has meant he never felt like there was a competition academically - his brain works very differently and he never wanted to be a nerd! He's very cool and fun and once he gets out of education I think he will do brilliantly in the workplace.

He chose this sixth form and these subjects, and two out of three are working for him, he wouldn't have to do much to nudge the third one into something that actually helped with future choices. There were not a lot of other options at the school he chose, his GCSEs were mostly 5 and 6 (which we were delighted about!) so he picked the options that worked knowing maths would be a struggle but that it would be useful for engineering/product design if he went down that path.

The jobs market for young people is a nightmare at the moment and whilst it is lovely for him to have a happy-go-lucky approach to the future and the hope that something will turn up, I fear that isn't the best long term strategy! I get that teen brains aren't particularly good at thinking beyond the next fun thing but he is almost an adult and has to give it a little thought. 15 years ago I'd have said the armed forces would have held perfect opportunities for him but the world is so unstable now few parents would wish that for their kids.

But you are expecting him to be like his brother, to be able and willing to apply himself for something he is finding challenging.

He probably just “can’t” his ND his impacting his ability to do it.

It's so frustrating isn't it OP. At the end of the days it's his life though. Hopefully he'll pull it out of the bag in year 13 (my DS did).

Dd3 is in y13 and really you just have to back off, offer support but respect it's their life. It's all so much more stressful than when I was doing A levels in the early 80s and most people didn't go to university (or even 6th form).
Mine doesn't really know what she wants to do at university but insists she wants to go. Has applied to 5 random universities for different (though related courses). She says she chose them because they wouldn't lead to a career!! (Her siblings did engineering and medicine). She didn't do quite as well as she hoped in her mocks but doesn't appear to have ramped up her efforts. She has ADHD and is probably autistic.