To be at my wit's end with DS?

[WithTwoGiantBoys]

DS17 is driving me nuts. In year 12 and simply has no work ethic at all when it comes to his school work. He is doing ok in a practical BTEC and a practical A Level but is failing his maths A Level. We got a tutor to help him, school is doing lots to support him, but it just isn't his priority and he just doesn't seem to care. All he cares about are his mates, his girlfriend, the gym, and his part time job (which only matters to fund his lifestyle).

AIBU to expect him to put in some effort? It's half term and he has done nothing but enjoy himself. I have pointed out repeatedly that we won't be funding his lifestyle after school if he doesn't have a job or a course of study. He just nods along then does nothing. I can't force him to do anything, so I just end up frustrated. I love him, he's a great lad, but if I hear "It's not that deep" one more time I might explode.

YABU: it's his life, you can't make him do anything, he just has to find out for himself and you support him best you can but have to just let it go

YANBU: You are right to be angry and just haven't found the right tactic yet to make him study. (Please tell.me what this is as I'm out of ideas)

Depends on what subjects you did I guess and what career pathway you chose. If those who worked hard at school and got good grades are struggling to find work, it'll be harder for those without those qualifications.

Fair enough.

Possibly what you don’t want to hear but a son who has a part time job, a relationship and is out of the house regularly exercising is doing pretty well. I have an MA and a BA (Hons) . I totally stuffed up my A levels however and didn’t go to University until I was 21. He has time. Being socially connected and knowing the value of work are vital life skills. Sorry , but you did ask!

Tbf maths A level should come with a warning. My eldest DS was brilliant at maths from day one. Excelled at it and loved it. Took it at A level and it’s a whole different subject virtually. Completely knocked his confidence doing his A levels in general. Was also during Covid which didn’t help. Ended up dropping to Maths AS Level and only just scraped that. There’s only so much you can do with their attitude and effort though. For me it’s frustrating because I was the same and didn’t have much motivation because I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do and ended up drifting along for a good while even though I was very clever. I now have my youngest DS doing A levels and it’s a similar story 🤦🏻‍♀️ both at a Grammar school as well so I get grief off of the teachers too. Youngest DS never found it all as easy as eldest so has always naturally had to put more effort in so thankfully he is predicted pretty good grades now. I just offer to help, try and be stern and talk about the consequences. Point out how much difference it could make just putting in some effort for a few months… but that’s all you can really do imo. Good luck.

I think sometimes you just need to have a complete break in the holidays, especially if you’re not loving what you’re doing.

I agree with others that it's the maths that is the problem, especially as he's doing well at the more practical subjects, working hard at his job etc.

Can you have a chat with him about that subject specifically and how he is finding it. It may be that the conceptual jump is just too much and he's really hating it. If he's really struggling, being honest about that now and finding an alternative is better than trying to force him to study something that he really dislikes and finds really hard.

If he's got this far surely he and you must understand its up to him....motivation, applying himself, prioritising they are all his problem. Not yours, back off however much it frustrates you.

Does he want to do a maths A level? Can he just focus on the BTEC?

My DD got 9’s in Maths and Further Maths at GCSE and still found Y12 maths A level really tough. By the February of Y12 she was being predicted B and C in Maths and Further Maths A level - and she loves maths (she is a little bit obsessed by it). She’s predicted A A now a year later but she’s had to throw everything she has at that.

If he doesn’t love maths then a maths A level was always going to be a failure.

Discuss with the sixth form and see if there he can maybe do a AS level in something in Y13 but unless he wants to go to Uni then it probably isn’t worth it.

unfortunately you have to back off. And let him fail if necessary , there's still time for him to get back in track. He's nearly an adult , it's time for him to take charge of his destiny. At that age I started telling my kids that their exam results and work ethic only affected their lives. My life wouldn't change . But passing exams gives you choices.

Solidarity. Have another Year 12 coaster here. It's frustrating as they are living in the moment whereas you are looking long term. If you work out what to say to get him working more on his A-levels do share!

My DC have an annoying habit of comparing their results to friends who are doing even worse rather than those who are working hard and excelling!

No, most of the homework will require WiFi to be completed.

Also, it sounds like he’s barely on the WiFi - he has a job, friends and goes to the gym.

It baffles me why everyone thinks all teenagers do is watch TikTok. Mine barely has time to have a social life (4 A levels, a part time job and she does dance classes twice a week with additional shows and competitions).

Nonsense. My nephew didn't sit GCSEs, functional skills maths and English alongside an apprenticeship, and earning very well now while his friends are getting into debt at uni 🤷🏼‍♀️

Completely agree re:6th form. I'd go as far as to say even GCSEs are pretty pointless for a lot of people. They are a stepping stone in learning how to study for those planning to go to uni, but for anyone wanting to learn a trade I strongly believe earlier hands on experience alongide business focused maths (and English) would be far more useful!

My DS has MH issues and academic pressure didn't help. When you have spent nights in A&E after your child has self harmed to the point of needing an ambulance, then their wellbeing and general happiness is what matters, everything else is a bonus.

As I have often said on here to counteract the "must do well or be consigned to NMW" brigade, who frankly know nothing, my DS has no GSCEs, no qualifications at all apart from a couple of Level 1 randoms and possibly a Functional Skills in Maths.

He is 23, working, has been for a few years, enjoys his job, has been promoted, has his own responsibilities and is discussing the options to progress. And is paid more than NMW.

How much and in what sector? Who's going to have the larger scope for growth in the future?

His friends have just started university and it all depends on what they study, where they study and what industries they target? Do they chose to do the charities sector or go work at Goldman Sachs? Lots of apprenticeships want strong GCSEs and at least Cs at A-level.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/higher-gcse-grades-linked-to-lifetime-earnings-boost

www.gov.uk/government/news/graduates-enjoy-100k-earnings-bonus-over-lifetime

I think there's a difference between not studying due to severe MH issues and just taking things chill and not putting in the hours because you can't be bothered. Life is hard, life is tough. The job market is tough and we need to prepare our DC for it

He doesn't know what he wants to do next, maybe something engineeringish as he's enjoying product design and is a great problem solver.

He was insistent on 6th form, refused to talk about apprenticeships and chose maths himself instead of another Btech. A local college had a really good sounding TLevel but he wasn't ready for college yet.

He is honestly making his own decisions which is why it is so frustrating he isn't prepared to make it work.

The thing I keep telling him is that I can't do it for him, and can't fix it for him if he's still in the same boat this time next year.

Obviously we'll support him what ever happens but he needed a LOT of help through his GCSEs as he is dyslexic. He's a fantastic lad, I'm just frustrated he can't see what he needs to do to give himself the most options. I think uni would be bad for him until he has matured enough to work independently and an apprenticeship would almost certainly be perfect but they are competitive!

I found a great local company that offers work experience for this summer that he needs to apply for and he hasn't bothered to do that all week either. Tearing my hair out.

Are you sure you're not actually me?!

Is swapping to core maths an option? I can see we may be in the same boat next year with DS2 currently in Y11 and being coaxed/cajoled/bullied through GCSEs. He wants to take maths A level but first needs a grade 7 in GCSE. I know from his older brother who got a 9 and is a natural mathematician that it’s a big step up! We think BTECS might be a better route but what would we know? Chill, mother…..
At some point they need to make their own decisions and live with the consequences but it is tough to sit back and let them.

I'm glad he's doing okay..if he wants to do engineering related stuff maths is very helpful.

Whatever he wants to do he should do it, and put full effort into achieving his goals.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
Id leave him to it, but point out bluntly that post A levels, no forward plan = looking for digs. No free rides after 18. Will his mates and gf be happy to fund his life.

"He needs to work hard he wants to go to university or even do any kind of practical training course. School grades do matter."

. He has ambitions to run his own business and there's no reason why he shouldn't do very well out of it. He is well aware that further courses may be beneficial to him and there's nothing to prevent him from doing them as he goes.
I did my degree with subject specific qualifications to get me in that were also not done at school.
You do not need school grades to do "any kind of practical training course"

I'll find out if his school offers core maths, but I don't think they do.

I bite my tongue a lot at home, DH and DS19 are borderline geniuses (not exaggerating, both Oxbridge and ridiculously clever) DH doesn't understand him at all. Eldest DS hasn't prepared us at all for this rather more relaxed attitude to study because he works hard even when he doesn't need to out of enjoyment.

I'm venting really, because I can't express much of this frustration at home without triggering everyone to argue. I know I have to just let him get on with it and prepare to pick up the pieces if it goes wrong in the end, but it seems so obvious and easy to solve if he would just do a little bit of work. Sigh

What a ridiculous comment. All a levels can be hard if you aren’t academic in that way or it isn’t a strength subject. Maths in particular requires a natural aptitude. I’m naturally academic and found maths a level hard despite gcse being easy. I got an a in the end when that was the top grade but wouldn’t have done it at uni as it gets harder again